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Posted by Starwizard
- Aug 08, 2002, 04:54 AMThanks for the answer George.
My re-test is scheduled for later today (i.e. I should be asleep right now, but cannot). At this point I am very emotionally drained by the whole experience. I still badly want to be a police officer and feel I would make an excellent one, but I am not optimistic as long as the polygraph is one of the hurtles I have to jump.
Trust me I have made my family and friends very aware of the flawed nature of the polygraph. These are the people that know me intimately and know I told the truth when I say I have never used drugs. Word is getting out, unfortunately it is costing the people that fall victim to it a lot of harm in the meantime.
My re-test is scheduled for later today (i.e. I should be asleep right now, but cannot). At this point I am very emotionally drained by the whole experience. I still badly want to be a police officer and feel I would make an excellent one, but I am not optimistic as long as the polygraph is one of the hurtles I have to jump.
Trust me I have made my family and friends very aware of the flawed nature of the polygraph. These are the people that know me intimately and know I told the truth when I say I have never used drugs. Word is getting out, unfortunately it is costing the people that fall victim to it a lot of harm in the meantime.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jul 29, 2002, 07:38 AMStarwizard,
I know of one person in who used the "complete honesty" approach we describe in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. That person's polygraph "test" was waived at the examiner's discretion. But it was not a pre-employment polygraph examination; it was a Department of Defense security screening polygraph involving a federal employee with years of experience and who had long held a security clearance.
The unwillingness of the polygraph community to state how a polygrapher should handle subjects who admit to knowledge of polygraphy and polygraph countermeasures is not cause for optimism. See, for example, my e-mail exchange with American Polygraph Association president Skip Webb:
http://antipolygraph.org/read.shtml#informed-subjects
I think the "complete honesty" approach is risky, and more so for applicants than for those already employed with an agency. You run the risk of being arbitrarily accused of deception and/or having attempted countermeasures. (If you do choose the complete honesty approach, I hope you'll consider posting your experience here.)
As you consider whether or not to use countermeasures to protect yourself against a false positive outcome, one point to bear in mind is that whether or not you are completely honest with your polygrapher, your polygrapher is going to be less than completely honest with you.
The situation in which you find yourself makes me angry, too. I hope you'll consider working with us toward the abolishment of polygraphy. One simple way you can help is to tell others about AntiPolygraph.org. The continuation of polygraph screening depends on public ignorance of how the "test" really works (and doesn't). Getting the word out, especially to those directly affected, is crucial.
I know of one person in who used the "complete honesty" approach we describe in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. That person's polygraph "test" was waived at the examiner's discretion. But it was not a pre-employment polygraph examination; it was a Department of Defense security screening polygraph involving a federal employee with years of experience and who had long held a security clearance.
The unwillingness of the polygraph community to state how a polygrapher should handle subjects who admit to knowledge of polygraphy and polygraph countermeasures is not cause for optimism. See, for example, my e-mail exchange with American Polygraph Association president Skip Webb:
http://antipolygraph.org/read.shtml#informed-subjects
I think the "complete honesty" approach is risky, and more so for applicants than for those already employed with an agency. You run the risk of being arbitrarily accused of deception and/or having attempted countermeasures. (If you do choose the complete honesty approach, I hope you'll consider posting your experience here.)
As you consider whether or not to use countermeasures to protect yourself against a false positive outcome, one point to bear in mind is that whether or not you are completely honest with your polygrapher, your polygrapher is going to be less than completely honest with you.
The situation in which you find yourself makes me angry, too. I hope you'll consider working with us toward the abolishment of polygraphy. One simple way you can help is to tell others about AntiPolygraph.org. The continuation of polygraph screening depends on public ignorance of how the "test" really works (and doesn't). Getting the word out, especially to those directly affected, is crucial.
Posted by Starwizard
- Jul 26, 2002, 12:38 PMFirst a little background:
I am applying to be a police officer and so far have taken two polygraphs for 2 different departments. The first polygraph I took, the polygrapher said I was having trouble with the drug usage question. I have never done any drugs, but I have had friends that did them. I was completely honest and did not try to deceive or mislead. When I went to the oral board for this department I was asked if I wanted to change my answer. When I said "no, I have never done drugs." they asked again stating it was not dis-qualifying to have previously used and was I sure I didn't want to change my answer. I said "no" naturally since I wasn't lying. Basically this threw the whole oral board off for me and I did not pass.
Since then I have applied to another department and taken a second polygraph. I fully disclosed everything in the questionaire booklet and was completely honest again. I apparently failed again. I'm now rescheduled for a re-test.
At this point I am unbelieveably frustrated. I really want to be a police officer and basically this "test" might prevent me from getting a job. I KNOW I have never done drugs. But this "test" is basically saying I did. The whole situation makes me so mad. Nothing pisses me off more than someone challenging my integrity.
Basically I am wondering what to do at this point. Not taking the test is not an option (I want the job). So I am left with employing countermeasures or disclosing that I have read this site and the book. Personally, I don't know how I feel about using countermeasures since I would be scared to screw them up and even though the test is bullshit, I am not totally comfortable with being deceptive. What would happen if I just told the polygrapher that I have researched the test based on my experiences and that I have absolutely no faith in the polygraph? That I KNOW I have never used drugs, so obviously the test is flawed.
Has anyone tried this approach and what were the results? If I "fail" this test again I am liable to go ballistic on the examiner. That is how angry this whole situation is making me. Any advice is welcome.
Thanks.
I am applying to be a police officer and so far have taken two polygraphs for 2 different departments. The first polygraph I took, the polygrapher said I was having trouble with the drug usage question. I have never done any drugs, but I have had friends that did them. I was completely honest and did not try to deceive or mislead. When I went to the oral board for this department I was asked if I wanted to change my answer. When I said "no, I have never done drugs." they asked again stating it was not dis-qualifying to have previously used and was I sure I didn't want to change my answer. I said "no" naturally since I wasn't lying. Basically this threw the whole oral board off for me and I did not pass.
Since then I have applied to another department and taken a second polygraph. I fully disclosed everything in the questionaire booklet and was completely honest again. I apparently failed again. I'm now rescheduled for a re-test.
At this point I am unbelieveably frustrated. I really want to be a police officer and basically this "test" might prevent me from getting a job. I KNOW I have never done drugs. But this "test" is basically saying I did. The whole situation makes me so mad. Nothing pisses me off more than someone challenging my integrity.
Basically I am wondering what to do at this point. Not taking the test is not an option (I want the job). So I am left with employing countermeasures or disclosing that I have read this site and the book. Personally, I don't know how I feel about using countermeasures since I would be scared to screw them up and even though the test is bullshit, I am not totally comfortable with being deceptive. What would happen if I just told the polygrapher that I have researched the test based on my experiences and that I have absolutely no faith in the polygraph? That I KNOW I have never used drugs, so obviously the test is flawed.
Has anyone tried this approach and what were the results? If I "fail" this test again I am liable to go ballistic on the examiner. That is how angry this whole situation is making me. Any advice is welcome.
Thanks.