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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by RasberryDonut
- Mar 18, 2015, 01:14 PMTrenzalore I wont just doubt you like Aunty but I also wont try to give real advice because I am new here and have no real knowledge to do so but I will just say two things. 1: If you are guilty of this, then you must do the right thing and confess. If not for yourself then please for the victim. 2: I may be wrong on this so please anybody with knowledge correct me if I am. But if she has done this several times in the past and by God's graces she confesses that she lied and you are innocent. I think then a poly wouldn't be needed and you'd be okay. I am not saying she will but I was just thinking that. But really I pray you are innocent but if you aren't ( I will give you the benefit of the doubt ) please do the right thing.
Posted by Aunty Agony
- Mar 17, 2015, 11:24 PMQuote from: Trenzalore on Mar 17, 2015, 05:45 PMWell I have to take it. I have no choice. The assholes did the worst thing they could. They had child services take my kids and placed them in separate foster homes and told me if I pass the test I can have them back.Aunty is beginning to find your story hard to believe.
I'm sure there's a lot more to your situation than what you're telling us here. But since I don't know you or those who are accusing you, I can only respond to what you have chosen to reveal.
If you refuse to submit to a polygraph test it may be a while before your children are returned to you. You will have to overcome your panic, stand fast against the unjust DA, and endure a trial.
If you agree to the polygraph test you will never see your children again.
If you are presenting your situation accurately, it is time to stop listening to your court-appointed counsel and start talking to the press. Find out if your local newspaper has an ombudsman office. Contact the ACLU at https://www.aclu.org/affiliates. Here is another possible resource: Lenore Skenazy at Lskenazy@yahoo.com.
If the district attorney and child services are not quite as evil as you describe, then perhaps you just need a new lawyer.
Posted by Trenzalore
- Mar 17, 2015, 06:39 PMI was also just reading in the book where it says not to take deep breaths. I only take deep breaths. in September 2011 I was hospitalized with double pneumonia both lungs filled. I was there 2 weeks and since then I can only take deep breaths. Even just saying yes or no to a question causes me to have to take a long deep breath. Should I make this known?
Posted by Trenzalore
- Mar 17, 2015, 05:45 PMWell I have to take it. I have no choice. The assholes did the worst thing they could. They had child services take my kids and placed them in separate foster homes and told me if I pass the test I can have them back.
Posted by Doug Williams
- Mar 15, 2015, 11:27 AMQuote from: AuntyAgony on Mar 15, 2015, 12:57 AMQuote from: Trenzalore on Mar 14, 2015, 11:04 PMWhat is TLBTLD?George's book The Lie Behind The Lie Detector.
https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?board=8.0
Check it out! Here is a new (and very affordable) polygraph instrument. Now you can test yourself before the real thing! Study George's book (or my manual) and then do some practice tests on this little beauty. It records exactly the same things as the polygraph used by all the polygraphers! And you can get it on EBAY for about $100!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321696207293?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Posted by Aunty Agony
- Mar 15, 2015, 12:57 AMQuote from: Trenzalore on Mar 14, 2015, 11:04 PMWhat is TLBTLD?George's book The Lie Behind The Lie Detector.
https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?board=8.0
Posted by Trenzalore
- Mar 14, 2015, 11:04 PMI thank everybody for the advice and I decided I am not taking it. They have already proven my innocence for me on several documented occasions and I would be a fool to give them the chance to get to me on this. I will inform my attorney Monday morning. I just have one question. What is TLBTLD?
Posted by Aunty Agony
- Mar 14, 2015, 09:35 PMQuote from: Trenzalore on Mar 13, 2015, 03:15 PMProblem is, my attorney suggests I take it.That's a problem, all right. In fact, it's the most serious problem you have right now. Your lawyer may sincerely believe that the polygraph is an accurate lie detector, or he may just be careless and lazy. In either case, he is dead wrong.
Your chances of passing a polygraph exam are about 50%. You can increase those chances through training and practice, although nothing can guarantee 100%. OTOH your actual guilt or innocence has absolutely no influence on the result. It's like betting on going to jail or going free by flipping a coin, but by studying TLBTLD you can weight the coin.
Let me give you the game theory payoff matrix:
| A poly exam would | A poly exam would |
| prove you innocent | prove you guilty |
------------------+---------------------+---------------------+
You refuse to | You are cleared | You are cleared |
take a poly exam | of all charges | of all charges |
------------------+---------------------+---------------------+
You agree to | You are cleared | You go to jail |
take a poly exam | of all charges | |
------------------+---------------------+---------------------+
So the only way you can go to jail is if you agree to a polygraph exam and luck is against you. Now George and Doug are giving you vary good advice about how to influence which column you end up in, but you don't need that advice as long as you can select which row you start out from.
-Aunty.
Posted by Doug Williams
- Mar 14, 2015, 09:53 AMQuote from: George_Maschke on Mar 14, 2015, 07:47 AMTrenzalore,
I think it is unwise to voluntarily submit to any law enforcement-administered polygraph examination/interrogation. In particular, it would be a mistake to sign any agreement stipulating that the results of such polygraph examination will be admissible in a court of law. I think it would be advisable to seek a second legal opinion.
However, and this is something to discuss with your lawyer, if you do agree to a law enforcement or DA-sponsored polygraph, then you should absolutely insist upon the following conditions, with an agreement to be signed in writing prior to any polygraph examination:
1. Your lawyer will be present with you inside the polygraph suite the entire time. The claim by polygraph operators that the presence of a third person would make the "test" untenable is a self-serving lie.
2. The entire polygraph procedure, including pre-test, in-test, and post-test will be video-recorded.
3. Immediately upon completion of the examination, you will be provided with a copy of the video recording as well as a printout of the polygraph charts, the polygraph operator's report, and the computer data file associated with the examination. (You may optionally state that a copy of these will be provided to AntiPolygraph.org for an independent review, which I will be happy to provide.)
4. The polygraph results will not be admissible in court.
When your lawyer insists upon these entirely reasonable conditions, it is likely that the request that you submit to a polygraph interrogation will be withdrawn.
Good advice George! I have always said that polygraphers are like cock roaches - they run away when the light is shined on them. The polygraph procedure cannot withstand public scrutiny because it will become apparent that it is nothing but a fraud. The polygraph is just a prop for an interrogation - nothing more and nothing less!
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Mar 14, 2015, 07:47 AMTrenzalore,
I think it is unwise to voluntarily submit to any law enforcement-administered polygraph examination/interrogation. In particular, it would be a mistake to sign any agreement stipulating that the results of such polygraph examination will be admissible in a court of law. I think it would be advisable to seek a second legal opinion.
However, and this is something to discuss with your lawyer, if you do agree to a law enforcement or DA-sponsored polygraph, then you should absolutely insist upon the following conditions, with an agreement to be signed in writing prior to any polygraph examination:
1. Your lawyer will be present with you inside the polygraph suite the entire time. The claim by polygraph operators that the presence of a third person would make the "test" untenable is a self-serving lie.
2. The entire polygraph procedure, including pre-test, in-test, and post-test will be video-recorded.
3. Immediately upon completion of the examination, you will be provided with a copy of the video recording as well as a printout of the polygraph charts, the polygraph operator's report, and the computer data file associated with the examination. (You may optionally state that a copy of these will be provided to AntiPolygraph.org for an independent review, which I will be happy to provide.)
4. The polygraph results will not be admissible in court.
When your lawyer insists upon these entirely reasonable conditions, it is likely that the request that you submit to a polygraph interrogation will be withdrawn.
I think it is unwise to voluntarily submit to any law enforcement-administered polygraph examination/interrogation. In particular, it would be a mistake to sign any agreement stipulating that the results of such polygraph examination will be admissible in a court of law. I think it would be advisable to seek a second legal opinion.
However, and this is something to discuss with your lawyer, if you do agree to a law enforcement or DA-sponsored polygraph, then you should absolutely insist upon the following conditions, with an agreement to be signed in writing prior to any polygraph examination:
1. Your lawyer will be present with you inside the polygraph suite the entire time. The claim by polygraph operators that the presence of a third person would make the "test" untenable is a self-serving lie.
2. The entire polygraph procedure, including pre-test, in-test, and post-test will be video-recorded.
3. Immediately upon completion of the examination, you will be provided with a copy of the video recording as well as a printout of the polygraph charts, the polygraph operator's report, and the computer data file associated with the examination. (You may optionally state that a copy of these will be provided to AntiPolygraph.org for an independent review, which I will be happy to provide.)
4. The polygraph results will not be admissible in court.
When your lawyer insists upon these entirely reasonable conditions, it is likely that the request that you submit to a polygraph interrogation will be withdrawn.
Posted by Trenzalore
- Mar 13, 2015, 03:15 PMUPDATE!!!!!
Sorry I took so long to respond but as I am sure you can understand, things have been hectic.
Okay so far everything they have thrown at me has failed them. So far every time the police, DFS, or the DA tries to come up with something that will prove I am guilty, it only proves I am innocent. A list of things that have gone in my favor: DFS admits she has done it before to several other people, I have witnesses, she has told a few others that she lied but changes her story for DFS and police, DFS told me that her story has been inconsistent, She was given the safe exam at MY request because she refused it and the doctors stated that she is still a virgin and shows no sign of ever being touched, let alone raped. ( Best evidence in my opinion ). I handed over all my devices ( laptop, Phones, thumb drives, SD cards and stuff ) to be examined by the police cyber crimes department and it was all cleared. Because of all these things, the DA told my attorney that he has no reason to charge me with anything and has no intention of doing so. But now that they have exhausted all their avenues and have come up with nothing, they told my lawyer that if I take the poly and pass it, they will drop the investigation. I know I am innocent but the idea of leaving my fate up to a faulty machine and human error just don't make me comfortable. Problem is, my attorney suggests I take it. If I get a false positive ( or negative, depending on what is worse ) wont that just be like giving them the one bullet they need against me? But on the other hand, last Tuesday after court, my attorney ( before they requested I take the poly to end it ) told me that I am going to have to testify as well as my witnesses and her and since there is nothing that shows any wrong doing on my part and the DA admits that, that the DA and judge will be very hard pressed to find a reason for filing charges on me. He said he thinks I have an outstanding chance of this ending. So I know what I want to do, but I want other opinions considering so much has changed. Thank you.
Sorry I took so long to respond but as I am sure you can understand, things have been hectic.
Okay so far everything they have thrown at me has failed them. So far every time the police, DFS, or the DA tries to come up with something that will prove I am guilty, it only proves I am innocent. A list of things that have gone in my favor: DFS admits she has done it before to several other people, I have witnesses, she has told a few others that she lied but changes her story for DFS and police, DFS told me that her story has been inconsistent, She was given the safe exam at MY request because she refused it and the doctors stated that she is still a virgin and shows no sign of ever being touched, let alone raped. ( Best evidence in my opinion ). I handed over all my devices ( laptop, Phones, thumb drives, SD cards and stuff ) to be examined by the police cyber crimes department and it was all cleared. Because of all these things, the DA told my attorney that he has no reason to charge me with anything and has no intention of doing so. But now that they have exhausted all their avenues and have come up with nothing, they told my lawyer that if I take the poly and pass it, they will drop the investigation. I know I am innocent but the idea of leaving my fate up to a faulty machine and human error just don't make me comfortable. Problem is, my attorney suggests I take it. If I get a false positive ( or negative, depending on what is worse ) wont that just be like giving them the one bullet they need against me? But on the other hand, last Tuesday after court, my attorney ( before they requested I take the poly to end it ) told me that I am going to have to testify as well as my witnesses and her and since there is nothing that shows any wrong doing on my part and the DA admits that, that the DA and judge will be very hard pressed to find a reason for filing charges on me. He said he thinks I have an outstanding chance of this ending. So I know what I want to do, but I want other opinions considering so much has changed. Thank you.
Posted by creatureman
- Feb 27, 2015, 09:37 AMDont submit to one with the Police! They will interrogate the crap out of you! Get a lawyer and only do a private poly, at the most, with attorney client privilege protection.
Posted by Aunty Agony
- Feb 22, 2015, 02:38 PMIt is most likely that if the police and the DA are badgering you to take a polygraph test then they don't have sufficient evidence to get the indictment much less convict you.
-Aunty.
-Aunty.
Posted by Dan Mangan
- Feb 18, 2015, 07:26 AMTrenzalore,
Don't take a polygraph with the cops.
Have your attorney arrange a private polygraph with a credentialed private examiner. Don't tell a soul. No exceptions.
If the outcome is favorable, your attorney can provide the authorities with the complete examination package -- charts, raw data, video, etc. -- for their review.
Daniel Mangan, M.A.
Full Member, American Polygraph Association
Certified PCSOT Examiner
www.polygraphman.com
Don't take a polygraph with the cops.
Have your attorney arrange a private polygraph with a credentialed private examiner. Don't tell a soul. No exceptions.
If the outcome is favorable, your attorney can provide the authorities with the complete examination package -- charts, raw data, video, etc. -- for their review.
Daniel Mangan, M.A.
Full Member, American Polygraph Association
Certified PCSOT Examiner
www.polygraphman.com
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Feb 17, 2015, 11:43 PMYour concerns about taking a polygraph "test" are well-founded. Polygraphy has no scientific basis, and it is common for truthful people to wrongly fail. Moreover, the police and DA are lying when they tell you that a polygraph can prove you are innocent. Polygraph chart readings are not admissible at trial (unless, in some states, if the suspect stupidly signs a stipulation agreement).
As used by criminal investigators, the polygraph is often little more than a pretext for interrogating a suspect without a lawyer present. While the polygraph chart readings may not be admissible at trial, any statements made by the suspect are admissible. In this connection, the suspect's "failing" the polygraph may be a pre-scripted part of the interrogation plan.
At this juncture, if I were in your shoes, I would seek the counsel of an experienced criminal defense lawyer, and importantly, I would not speak with investigators in the absence of legal counsel for the reasons articulated here by law professor James Duane:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
As used by criminal investigators, the polygraph is often little more than a pretext for interrogating a suspect without a lawyer present. While the polygraph chart readings may not be admissible at trial, any statements made by the suspect are admissible. In this connection, the suspect's "failing" the polygraph may be a pre-scripted part of the interrogation plan.
At this juncture, if I were in your shoes, I would seek the counsel of an experienced criminal defense lawyer, and importantly, I would not speak with investigators in the absence of legal counsel for the reasons articulated here by law professor James Duane:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc