- Welcome to AntiPolygraph.org Message Board.
A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by beech trees
- Mar 28, 2002, 11:04 PMQuote from: Propoly on Mar 28, 2002, 05:53 PMYou are afraid because you are an honest person. You know that counter measures go beyond your moral and ethical principles, and just thinking about using counter measures disturb you. There is no need to worry if you tell the truth. Two and a half years will not even put a dent in the honesty that has been instilled in you, over a lifetime by your parents. Tell the truth, and pass the polygraph examination with flying colors. I guarantee your next post on this site will shock most readers.
"When you were growing up, if you are like most people, you
were raised to know the difference between right and wrong.
Quite probably, all of the adults you came in contact with--your
parents, grandparents, relatives, teachers, church officials--taught
you that lying, cheating, and stealing were wrong. Ever since you
were a young child, you have been programmed to know that
lying is wrong. Think about the first time you lied and got caught.
Remember how your body felt during that confrontation. Your
heart may have been racing or you may have been sweating.
However, the responses were automatic; your body adjusted to
the stress of the situation.
People are not always 100% honest. Sometimes it is kinder and
more socially acceptable to lie than to be honest - such as telling
someone you like their clothes when you really think the clothes
are awful. It is important for you to understand that even though a lie might be socially acceptable or only a small lie, or a lie by
omission, your body still responds. The recording on the polygraph will show only the physiological responses. It cannot know what kind of lie you are telling. Therefore, it is extremely important that you be totally honest...
The words quoted above rang in my head as I read your hokum. They're from the Department of Defense Polygraph Institute, as quoted in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. Both that statement, as well as your statement above, are lies.
Posted by G Scalabr
- Mar 28, 2002, 10:45 PMQuotePropoly (addressing Taz): I guarantee your next post on this site will shock most readers.
If you had actually read the thread, you would have noticed that Taz chose to use countermeasures and did, indeed pass. This should come as no shock to anyone.
QuoteThere is no need to worry if you tell the truth. Tell the truth, and pass the polygraph examination with flying colors.
On what basis do you make this assertion?
Posted by Propoly
- Mar 28, 2002, 05:53 PMTaz,
You are afraid because you are an honest person. You know that counter measures go beyond your moral and ethical principles, and just thinking about using counter measures disturb you. There is no need to worry if you tell the truth. Two and a half years will not even put a dent in the honesty that has been instilled in you, over a lifetime by your parents. Tell the truth, and pass the polygraph examination with flying colors. I guarantee your next post on this site will shock most readers.
You are afraid because you are an honest person. You know that counter measures go beyond your moral and ethical principles, and just thinking about using counter measures disturb you. There is no need to worry if you tell the truth. Two and a half years will not even put a dent in the honesty that has been instilled in you, over a lifetime by your parents. Tell the truth, and pass the polygraph examination with flying colors. I guarantee your next post on this site will shock most readers.
Posted by Taz23
- Feb 27, 2002, 05:50 PMMortified,
I'm glad that I can at least give you a little more courage with my experience. It was hard for me to beleive that countermeasures would work, since I could count with one hand how many people had posted their success stories here.
Till the last minute in the waiting room, I was nervous as hell.
I think it is only human nature to feel that way. The thing that made me the most nervous was the fact that this would be the last time I would apply with a LE agency. If I did not pass this test, I was going to throw the towel in. [ Just as a side note, I have nothing in my backgound that would disqualify me from being in LE, I was never a trouble maker. It was hard for my wife and people who know me to understand why I couldn't pass a "Lie detector Test". I think that some of my friends maybe even changed their perspective about me, since in our culture we have blind faith in those tests]
I beleive that if you practice, you can beat this test as I have. As far as Doug William's manual, In my opinion you have already learned all there is to know.
Good Luck!
Taz
I'm glad that I can at least give you a little more courage with my experience. It was hard for me to beleive that countermeasures would work, since I could count with one hand how many people had posted their success stories here.
Till the last minute in the waiting room, I was nervous as hell.
I think it is only human nature to feel that way. The thing that made me the most nervous was the fact that this would be the last time I would apply with a LE agency. If I did not pass this test, I was going to throw the towel in. [ Just as a side note, I have nothing in my backgound that would disqualify me from being in LE, I was never a trouble maker. It was hard for my wife and people who know me to understand why I couldn't pass a "Lie detector Test". I think that some of my friends maybe even changed their perspective about me, since in our culture we have blind faith in those tests]
I beleive that if you practice, you can beat this test as I have. As far as Doug William's manual, In my opinion you have already learned all there is to know.
Good Luck!
Taz
Posted by Mortified
- Feb 26, 2002, 07:14 PMTaz23, just wanted to thank you. As my "doomsday" approaches, my fears of false positives continue to run through my mind. Your success and your real-life advice are truly an inspiration. 
I have alot riding on this polygraph, which would ordinarily make the schemes that they use even more effective.
One question: I have read, and learned alot from the "Lie Behind the Lie Detector" and have purchased Dr. Lykken's book. I am also considering buying Doug Williams' Sting document. Does it offer anything beyond what I already have, or is it a re-hash?
I have alot riding on this polygraph, which would ordinarily make the schemes that they use even more effective.
One question: I have read, and learned alot from the "Lie Behind the Lie Detector" and have purchased Dr. Lykken's book. I am also considering buying Doug Williams' Sting document. Does it offer anything beyond what I already have, or is it a re-hash?
Posted by Taz23
- Feb 26, 2002, 05:49 PMThank You All,
I think it is my duty to post what countermeasures I used.
As I mentioned earlier I had 1 1/2 years of practice and research. The method I used was the one that I found I had mastered over time.
I soon learned that I could manipulate my heart rate and blood pressure by using mental countermeaures. I would go and pratice at grocerie stores where they have those machines to measure your blood pressure. I quickly learned that I had more control over my systolic, diastolic pressure, and heartbeat by applying mental countermeasure rather than the pucker technique. I could also make the numbers jump alot higher with mental counter measures than with the pucker technique at full tension.
I know alot of people are probably asking "What do you mean by mental countermeasure?" Well, In the "Lie Behind the.." Examples of Mental Countermeasures are, thinking about falling, thinking about something that scares you, or trying to solve complex math problems. Truth is I'm really not scared of many things and I hate math. But then I remembered something, I have a deep and uncontrollable anxiety whenever I think about the after life.. ( I guess you can call this a phobia) If I start tho think about the subject I get really scared and start gasping for air. If I think about long enough (More than 3 min.), I begin to sweat and tremble uncontrollably. I used this to my advantage and practiced till I could think about it and that's all I had to do. I did not practice for any breathing countermeasures because since I was genuinely scared I was already gasping for air.
This is the technique I used, and for the relevant questions I just thought about other things which are nice and pure ( my wife). Like I said I found that this was the most powerfull and controllable countermeaure for me. I'm not sure if this will work with everyone as not everyone has a phobia.
If anyone has any questions about my experience, just let me know.
Taz
PS On Doug Williams manual it is advised that you use countermeasures on irrelevant questions. I do not think this is a good idea on CQT format as this will raise suspicion that you may be using countermeaures. I think the best thing to do Is to learn how to identify Control Questions.
Again, this is only one humble man's opinion...
I think it is my duty to post what countermeasures I used.
As I mentioned earlier I had 1 1/2 years of practice and research. The method I used was the one that I found I had mastered over time.
I soon learned that I could manipulate my heart rate and blood pressure by using mental countermeaures. I would go and pratice at grocerie stores where they have those machines to measure your blood pressure. I quickly learned that I had more control over my systolic, diastolic pressure, and heartbeat by applying mental countermeasure rather than the pucker technique. I could also make the numbers jump alot higher with mental counter measures than with the pucker technique at full tension.
I know alot of people are probably asking "What do you mean by mental countermeasure?" Well, In the "Lie Behind the.." Examples of Mental Countermeasures are, thinking about falling, thinking about something that scares you, or trying to solve complex math problems. Truth is I'm really not scared of many things and I hate math. But then I remembered something, I have a deep and uncontrollable anxiety whenever I think about the after life.. ( I guess you can call this a phobia) If I start tho think about the subject I get really scared and start gasping for air. If I think about long enough (More than 3 min.), I begin to sweat and tremble uncontrollably. I used this to my advantage and practiced till I could think about it and that's all I had to do. I did not practice for any breathing countermeasures because since I was genuinely scared I was already gasping for air.
This is the technique I used, and for the relevant questions I just thought about other things which are nice and pure ( my wife). Like I said I found that this was the most powerfull and controllable countermeaure for me. I'm not sure if this will work with everyone as not everyone has a phobia.
If anyone has any questions about my experience, just let me know.
Taz
PS On Doug Williams manual it is advised that you use countermeasures on irrelevant questions. I do not think this is a good idea on CQT format as this will raise suspicion that you may be using countermeaures. I think the best thing to do Is to learn how to identify Control Questions.
Again, this is only one humble man's opinion...
Posted by Fred F.
- Feb 22, 2002, 11:12 PMTAZ23
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!
You are definitely a success story!!!.
You have set the precedence for my credo "GET EDUCATED- KNOWLEDGE IS POWER"
I hope that others will learn from your experience that even if you spend 1 1/2 years or 1 1/2 weeks reading The Lie Behind The Lie Detector you are ready for the "magic show"
I agree with Beech_Trees as well, 1 1/2 years is more time than it takes the "sorcerer" to learn his trickery.
Good Luck with your career
Fred F.
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!
You are definitely a success story!!!.
You have set the precedence for my credo "GET EDUCATED- KNOWLEDGE IS POWER"
I hope that others will learn from your experience that even if you spend 1 1/2 years or 1 1/2 weeks reading The Lie Behind The Lie Detector you are ready for the "magic show"
I agree with Beech_Trees as well, 1 1/2 years is more time than it takes the "sorcerer" to learn his trickery.
Good Luck with your career
Fred F.
Posted by G Scalabr
- Feb 22, 2002, 10:54 PMTA223,
Congratulations. I apologize for not posting to this thread earlier.
You had written:
As you are now aware, for someone who has been practicing countermeasures for 1 1/2 years (or much less for that matter), the polygraph should not be considered doomsday. The whole thing is a complete joke once you know the trickery behind it. For those who know about countermeasures (both those with clean backgrounds and criminals), a polygraph "test" is an event that one can almost look forward to. The countermeasures allow you to manipulate the "test" so convincingly that an employer is likely to discount the weight of any problems uncovered by legitimate investigations.
Polygraph "tests" are easily beaten by anyone (not just pathological liars as polygraphers would have you believe), making them the best friend of criminals and other shady people. Furthermore, they falsely accuse large numbers of people. Those who support polygraph "testing" because they value national security are missing the boat because of these significant issues.
Congratulations. I apologize for not posting to this thread earlier.
You had written:
QuoteAs Doomsday approaches I find myself more and more relaxed.
As you are now aware, for someone who has been practicing countermeasures for 1 1/2 years (or much less for that matter), the polygraph should not be considered doomsday. The whole thing is a complete joke once you know the trickery behind it. For those who know about countermeasures (both those with clean backgrounds and criminals), a polygraph "test" is an event that one can almost look forward to. The countermeasures allow you to manipulate the "test" so convincingly that an employer is likely to discount the weight of any problems uncovered by legitimate investigations.
Polygraph "tests" are easily beaten by anyone (not just pathological liars as polygraphers would have you believe), making them the best friend of criminals and other shady people. Furthermore, they falsely accuse large numbers of people. Those who support polygraph "testing" because they value national security are missing the boat because of these significant issues.
Posted by TAZ23
- Feb 21, 2002, 11:00 PMYES!!!! 1 1/2 years of practicing is definately enough.
As I said earlier I have been researching and practicing for quite a while. One of my biggest concerns of trying countermeasures was that not many people posted success stories in this site. Well, for all those skeptics out there
I AM A SUCCESS STORY. Countermeasures do work and the polygraphers who say they can detect them can kiss me *rear*. I was polygraphed by a polygrapher who claimed 18 yrs. of experince. I used countermeasures. I passed. The End.
Here is a quick story:
As I entered the dragon's den I could not help but feel afraid. I was very aware that I had been in training for 1 1/2 years, and that I knew all the dragon's tricks and tactics. I knew I could beat him if I could just compose myself. I looked down at my chest and could literally see my heart beating. I began to worry and get those butterflies in my stomach, but then I heard a voice in my head, I think It may have been Master Maschke's voice or maybe Master Scalabrini's, "Remember grasshopper this is nothing more than magic and you already know how his tricks work, therefore he cannot cast any spells on you".
As the dragon opened his mouth and fired the questions that would be asked on his magical machine, I felt complete relaxation and his words could not burn me, nor scare me.
At the end of the ordeal I just smiled when the dragon returned back to his lair and with a mortal wound to his magic record told me, "you passed".....
And so I must now conquer the rest of the exams. Thanks George, Gino,Dr. Richardson, BT, AMM, FRED F, Bill Roche, and everyone else who has contributed to this site.
Taz
As I said earlier I have been researching and practicing for quite a while. One of my biggest concerns of trying countermeasures was that not many people posted success stories in this site. Well, for all those skeptics out there
I AM A SUCCESS STORY. Countermeasures do work and the polygraphers who say they can detect them can kiss me *rear*. I was polygraphed by a polygrapher who claimed 18 yrs. of experince. I used countermeasures. I passed. The End.
Here is a quick story:
As I entered the dragon's den I could not help but feel afraid. I was very aware that I had been in training for 1 1/2 years, and that I knew all the dragon's tricks and tactics. I knew I could beat him if I could just compose myself. I looked down at my chest and could literally see my heart beating. I began to worry and get those butterflies in my stomach, but then I heard a voice in my head, I think It may have been Master Maschke's voice or maybe Master Scalabrini's, "Remember grasshopper this is nothing more than magic and you already know how his tricks work, therefore he cannot cast any spells on you".
As the dragon opened his mouth and fired the questions that would be asked on his magical machine, I felt complete relaxation and his words could not burn me, nor scare me.
At the end of the ordeal I just smiled when the dragon returned back to his lair and with a mortal wound to his magic record told me, "you passed".....
And so I must now conquer the rest of the exams. Thanks George, Gino,Dr. Richardson, BT, AMM, FRED F, Bill Roche, and everyone else who has contributed to this site.
Taz
Posted by TAZ23
- Feb 20, 2002, 04:21 PMBT,
Thanks for the advice. I read that manual about 3 months into my research (and have reread it several times). I also have Doug William's manual. About the only thing I have'nt read in it's entirety is Dr. Lykken's book.
Thanks again for the encouragement. As Doomsday aproaches I find myself more and more relaxed.
Taz
Thanks for the advice. I read that manual about 3 months into my research (and have reread it several times). I also have Doug William's manual. About the only thing I have'nt read in it's entirety is Dr. Lykken's book.
Thanks again for the encouragement. As Doomsday aproaches I find myself more and more relaxed.
Taz
Posted by beech trees
- Feb 20, 2002, 02:35 AMDon't worry-- at one and a half years of practice you're almost ten times more studious than your polygraph interrogator.
How to remain calm? Believe in yourself. Anticipate with cool resolve the conflict, and laugh inwardly at the cheap theatrics and transparent tactics your interrogator will use. Make his arrogance work against him-- make him believe you really are a screamer in the chair.
One thing I did which I found very helpful was to download and read carefully this document, Department of Defense Polygraph Institute Interview and Interrogation Handbook. Knowing the tactics your interrogator may use to verbally box you in provides you with an edge. Knowing the body language and idiosyncracies they look for to connote honesty (and of course, deception) can only help you. Good luck, let us know how it goes.
BT
How to remain calm? Believe in yourself. Anticipate with cool resolve the conflict, and laugh inwardly at the cheap theatrics and transparent tactics your interrogator will use. Make his arrogance work against him-- make him believe you really are a screamer in the chair.
One thing I did which I found very helpful was to download and read carefully this document, Department of Defense Polygraph Institute Interview and Interrogation Handbook. Knowing the tactics your interrogator may use to verbally box you in provides you with an edge. Knowing the body language and idiosyncracies they look for to connote honesty (and of course, deception) can only help you. Good luck, let us know how it goes.
BT
Posted by TAZ23
- Feb 19, 2002, 10:09 PMI Failed a poly about 2 years ago. After some self-therapy to reasure myself that I am an honest person and that something had to be wrong with the polygraph and not me, I started doing some research. I have been practicing countermeasures and reading all material provided in this and other web sites for about 1 1/2 years. I am very confident I can distinguish between control and relevant questions.
I now find myself facing another polygraph soon. Even with all the confidence of knowing I know how to be it, I am very afraid. Is there anything else I can do to try and calm myself for this test? I will post my reults wether good or bad once I know. I may wait some time after the test as it is obvious polygraphers routinely check this site.
Thanks for the years of training. Now I must go and put theory to action.
Taz
I now find myself facing another polygraph soon. Even with all the confidence of knowing I know how to be it, I am very afraid. Is there anything else I can do to try and calm myself for this test? I will post my reults wether good or bad once I know. I may wait some time after the test as it is obvious polygraphers routinely check this site.
Thanks for the years of training. Now I must go and put theory to action.
Taz