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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by doubleagent
- Dec 02, 2006, 01:59 AMQuote from: patrioteagle on Aug 18, 2005, 04:23 PMI don't see how you are going to get around this one. It's like the end of the movie Election (ever see it?).
Sounds like you better come clean to your wife either way.
Surely you had to know that soliciting prostitutes/escorts makes you susceptible to coercion. That's a no-brainer - especially since you are married!
I pray that you land on your feet and can keep your family together.
Good luck.
Maybe I missed something, and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I see no mention of prostitues in this post. However, I do see a mention of an open marriage. Just because someone has an open marriage doesn't mean they solicite prostitues. You are way off base by assuming this.
Also, why are you praying for him to keep his family together? It doesn't seem to me like he is having any family problems. He and his wife are both consenting adults. Many couples have happy open marriages.
Now that is out of the way.................
This post has got me thinking. This week I had an interview with an organization and the position would require my clearance to be upgraded from TS/SCI - CI Poly to a fullscope. I too have an polyamorous marriage and am wondering if I should be concerned.
Posted by NSAreject
- Aug 18, 2005, 05:55 PMalpha06,
NSA makes applicants believe that anything short of
murder is no big deal. Well guesss what ? All
derogatory information from the poly interrogation is
sent back to DoD/DSS for review. I have seen people
lose, or have clearances downgraded, due to sitting for
polys. The NSA polygraphers are lying assholes, but
luckily, I no longer have to care ! You got screwed on
"personal conduct", by not telling the truth. Try visiting
the DoD DOHA website at:
http://www.defenselink.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/
Sorry to say, but you are probably screwed, and now
have an SCI denial in the new intel-wide community
database. I am fortunate to be able to get by on only
TS/SCI non-poly clearance.
NSA makes applicants believe that anything short of
murder is no big deal. Well guesss what ? All
derogatory information from the poly interrogation is
sent back to DoD/DSS for review. I have seen people
lose, or have clearances downgraded, due to sitting for
polys. The NSA polygraphers are lying assholes, but
luckily, I no longer have to care ! You got screwed on
"personal conduct", by not telling the truth. Try visiting
the DoD DOHA website at:
http://www.defenselink.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/
Sorry to say, but you are probably screwed, and now
have an SCI denial in the new intel-wide community
database. I am fortunate to be able to get by on only
TS/SCI non-poly clearance.
Posted by patrioteagle
- Aug 18, 2005, 04:23 PMI don't see how you are going to get around this one. It's like the end of the movie Election (ever see it?).
Sounds like you better come clean to your wife either way.
Surely you had to know that soliciting prostitutes/escorts makes you susceptible to coercion. That's a no-brainer - especially since you are married!
I pray that you land on your feet and can keep your family together.
Good luck.
Sounds like you better come clean to your wife either way.
Surely you had to know that soliciting prostitutes/escorts makes you susceptible to coercion. That's a no-brainer - especially since you are married!
I pray that you land on your feet and can keep your family together.
Good luck.
Posted by polyrized
- Aug 17, 2005, 05:44 PMThere are supposed to be a series of guidelines used to address when sexual behavior/personal conduct is a security issue or not. Unfortunately I am finding that they are rather subjective in interpretation.
Mine is still a story in process, but when it is completed I hope to write more specific details to warn others about the perils of open-ended lifestyle questions in polygraph interviews.
Mine is still a story in process, but when it is completed I hope to write more specific details to warn others about the perils of open-ended lifestyle questions in polygraph interviews.
Posted by patrioteagle
- Aug 17, 2005, 05:34 PMAre there degrees of seriousness?
One poster mentions prostitutes. Your story involved kinkiness. Where do they draw the line? What are the written guidelines?
The way I see it, without sites like this, potential polygraphees have no way of knowing what they're walking in to. A small little incident can follow you around the rest of your life.
I plan on working in an intelligence agency that does not require full scope poly- but only the CI- poly. I heard there are no lifestyle questions on the CI poly and there is a much higher success rate of passing. Let's face it: someone who's into protecting and serving our country should not have any foreign contacts or interests that are detrimental to the USA- thats a no brainer, but who cares if they've looked at porn?
I don't plan on working on assignments that require the full scope poly as there is just too much calculated risk of a false positive or something totally stupid that would ruin my life.
One poster mentions prostitutes. Your story involved kinkiness. Where do they draw the line? What are the written guidelines?
The way I see it, without sites like this, potential polygraphees have no way of knowing what they're walking in to. A small little incident can follow you around the rest of your life.
I plan on working in an intelligence agency that does not require full scope poly- but only the CI- poly. I heard there are no lifestyle questions on the CI poly and there is a much higher success rate of passing. Let's face it: someone who's into protecting and serving our country should not have any foreign contacts or interests that are detrimental to the USA- thats a no brainer, but who cares if they've looked at porn?
I don't plan on working on assignments that require the full scope poly as there is just too much calculated risk of a false positive or something totally stupid that would ruin my life.
Posted by polyrized
- Aug 17, 2005, 05:21 PMWhich is why the lifestyle type questions on polygraph pre-employment screening for intelligence agencies are especially dangerous. The examiners attempt to elicit information about sexual history to look for disqualifying information but end up with a lot of very personal information which an adjudicator who focuses on their own morality rather than the written guidelines will find objectionable. They then make this material a part of the permanent record and pass it on without review or consideration. The voiced concern is that the information would make somebody subject to extortion - even though the subject volunteered the information to begin with!!
Posted by patrioteagle
- Aug 17, 2005, 04:44 PMYour situation really sucks.
So internet porn (soft core/hard core- all legal) is a red flag that can cause clearance revocation? Who hasn't looked at internet porn before? Hell, the internet is 70% porn. You can't go anywhere on the net and not get popups for porn or something like that.
So this is what the CIA and NSA are up to with our tax dollars. Going on a witch hunt for people that look at porn. Please.
So internet porn (soft core/hard core- all legal) is a red flag that can cause clearance revocation? Who hasn't looked at internet porn before? Hell, the internet is 70% porn. You can't go anywhere on the net and not get popups for porn or something like that.
So this is what the CIA and NSA are up to with our tax dollars. Going on a witch hunt for people that look at porn. Please.
Posted by polyrized
- Aug 17, 2005, 03:56 PMWithin a few days of getting the report of my polygraph from seven years before I had my clearance suspended pending revocation (which is where I am now). I am of the belief that my suspension/revocation is not based upon bonafide national security interests, but upon the moral objections of the adjudicater regarding my past sexual history. Which are only part of the record because I honestly answered lifestyle questions on a full scope polygraph.
Posted by polyrized
- Aug 17, 2005, 12:48 PMWhat makes you think you failed your polygraph... you were honest and open about your personal life and it doesn't sound like you lied.
I am going through a somewhat similar process. In my case the conduct of concern occurred eight years ago and involved my estranged wife and I having an open marriage, a kinky girlfriend, and looking at hardcore pornography on my home computer on one occassion (no child porn). I provided all these admissions on a polygraph. I was assured that the information would be kept private and that the intent was to show I wouldn't be subject to blackmail or extortion. Note that nothing I did was illegal, nonconsensual, or public.
I recently was granted a ts clearance and hired by a federal agency that does not require a polygraph exam or which asks lifestyle/sexual questions on background investigation. The material I disclosed on the polygraph years before has now become an issue and I too am under investigation with my clearance suspended for 'personal conduct'. The supposed issues;
I didn't disclose I previously had a polygraph. My response... nobody asked during my background investigation if I'd ever applied for another agency or had a polygraph. When the conditional offer of employment at the agency I had the polygraph was rescinded, I wasn't even given a reason why or that the polygraph was the cause. I answered every question and filled out all the paperwork accurately.
I could be subject to blackmail/extortion. This despite the fact I've provided letters from my current and former wives that they were aware of my sex life before all this came up. And that I voluntarily disclosed this information during the lifestyle questions of the polygraph.
So I am not sure what to tell you. My 'personal conduct' issues occurred eight years ago and never involved criminal conduct and I'm facing revocation. The bottom line lesson; realize that anything you say during the polygraph interview is part of a permanent record that will follow you forever.
I am going through a somewhat similar process. In my case the conduct of concern occurred eight years ago and involved my estranged wife and I having an open marriage, a kinky girlfriend, and looking at hardcore pornography on my home computer on one occassion (no child porn). I provided all these admissions on a polygraph. I was assured that the information would be kept private and that the intent was to show I wouldn't be subject to blackmail or extortion. Note that nothing I did was illegal, nonconsensual, or public.
I recently was granted a ts clearance and hired by a federal agency that does not require a polygraph exam or which asks lifestyle/sexual questions on background investigation. The material I disclosed on the polygraph years before has now become an issue and I too am under investigation with my clearance suspended for 'personal conduct'. The supposed issues;
I didn't disclose I previously had a polygraph. My response... nobody asked during my background investigation if I'd ever applied for another agency or had a polygraph. When the conditional offer of employment at the agency I had the polygraph was rescinded, I wasn't even given a reason why or that the polygraph was the cause. I answered every question and filled out all the paperwork accurately.
I could be subject to blackmail/extortion. This despite the fact I've provided letters from my current and former wives that they were aware of my sex life before all this came up. And that I voluntarily disclosed this information during the lifestyle questions of the polygraph.
So I am not sure what to tell you. My 'personal conduct' issues occurred eight years ago and never involved criminal conduct and I'm facing revocation. The bottom line lesson; realize that anything you say during the polygraph interview is part of a permanent record that will follow you forever.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Aug 17, 2005, 11:33 AMAt this point, you can avoid making matters worse by not falsely denying to DoD investigators matters that you've already disclosed to the NSA.
I don't know what your chances of keeping your clearance are, but if it is revoked, you will have the opportunity to appeal the decision to the Defense Office of Hearings and Appeals (DOHA). You'll find recent decision by DOHA administrative judges here:
http://www.defenselink.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/
You could look through these for any cases with parallels to your own situation.
I don't know what your chances of keeping your clearance are, but if it is revoked, you will have the opportunity to appeal the decision to the Defense Office of Hearings and Appeals (DOHA). You'll find recent decision by DOHA administrative judges here:
http://www.defenselink.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/
You could look through these for any cases with parallels to your own situation.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Aug 17, 2005, 08:38 AMWhile I don't have fist hand knowledge of the NSA's information sharing policies, I think it is safe to assume that everything you disclosed to the NSA already has been or will be shared with the Defense Industrial Security Organization (DISCO).
Security Clearances and National Security Information: Law and Procedures, a document prepared by Sheldon I. Cohen for the Defense Personnel Security Research Center may be helpful in answering your questions. You can download it as a 17.5 mb PDF file here:
http://antipolygraph.org/documents/security-clearances.pdf
Chapter 8, which addresses polygraphs, is available in HTML format here:
http://antipolygraph.org/documents/security-clearances.shtml
Security Clearances and National Security Information: Law and Procedures, a document prepared by Sheldon I. Cohen for the Defense Personnel Security Research Center may be helpful in answering your questions. You can download it as a 17.5 mb PDF file here:
http://antipolygraph.org/documents/security-clearances.pdf
Chapter 8, which addresses polygraphs, is available in HTML format here:
http://antipolygraph.org/documents/security-clearances.shtml