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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by Twoblock
- Apr 04, 2006, 11:31 PMCorey
Sounds to me like they are determined to hang something on you. First your knowledge of the polygraph. Now you damaged the machine? What a crock of bliffet. It's idiots like them that causes distrust in LE. Most are fine cops but, there are rogues in every department.
Do NOT hesitate in having your lawyer, or do it yourself, to file a "Show Cause Motion" and demand the charts, vidio, and audio of your polygraph session. You better get yourself backed up, Bud. You need to get started on a damage lawsuit, also.
Sounds to me like they are determined to hang something on you. First your knowledge of the polygraph. Now you damaged the machine? What a crock of bliffet. It's idiots like them that causes distrust in LE. Most are fine cops but, there are rogues in every department.
Do NOT hesitate in having your lawyer, or do it yourself, to file a "Show Cause Motion" and demand the charts, vidio, and audio of your polygraph session. You better get yourself backed up, Bud. You need to get started on a damage lawsuit, also.
Posted by quickfix
- Apr 04, 2006, 07:55 PMCorey: if you had tampered with any of the components, it would have clearly indicated a malfunction during the exam, requiring the test to be terminated and the defective component repaired or replaced. Further, the video recording is usually recording from the moment you walk in until you leave; if there was proof you tampered with anything, they wouldn't have to accuse you, they would already have the proof. I seriously doubt you could have gotten away with it, although it would have shown a hell of a lot of chutzpuh had you tried.
Posted by Corey_Adcock
- Apr 04, 2006, 12:32 AMI received word (from a third party) this afternoon that the detective is trying to say I did something to the equipment before the test. This is making me furious. I demanded a review of the videotape to discredit this lie (I am glad for that tape now).
This how this is making me feel: I believe they have this "he couldn't have possibly passed the test" mentality "so let's make-up reasons as to why he passed". This is driving me nuts!!!
I have asked for the charts if they fail me. I will have them reviewed by an independant polygrapher at that point. I assume that this can be done.
I'll keep you updated. In the meantime, any advice is well received and greatly appreciated. Thank you to Twoblock and quickfix for your insights.
This how this is making me feel: I believe they have this "he couldn't have possibly passed the test" mentality "so let's make-up reasons as to why he passed". This is driving me nuts!!!
I have asked for the charts if they fail me. I will have them reviewed by an independant polygrapher at that point. I assume that this can be done.
I'll keep you updated. In the meantime, any advice is well received and greatly appreciated. Thank you to Twoblock and quickfix for your insights.
Posted by quickfix
- Apr 03, 2006, 10:15 PMIt is generally left to the examiner's discretion. Some do, most don't.
Posted by Corey_Adcock
- Apr 03, 2006, 04:34 AMI forgot to mention that the polygrapher had me close my eyes during the exam. I am not getting the impression that this is typical, but please correct me if I am wrong.
Posted by quickfix
- Apr 02, 2006, 10:45 PMCorey: examiners who interrogate people about having researched polygraph don't deserve your cooperation. There is nothing illegal or unethical about researching polygraph on this or any other site. You did the right thing by walking out.
Two-block: no harm, no foul, apology cheerfully accepted. I agree, the charts/test conclusions should stand unless the examiner puts it in the report that CMs were suspected. It would be interesting to know what the report states.
Regards
Two-block: no harm, no foul, apology cheerfully accepted. I agree, the charts/test conclusions should stand unless the examiner puts it in the report that CMs were suspected. It would be interesting to know what the report states.
Regards
Posted by Corey_Adcock
- Apr 02, 2006, 06:13 PMQuote from: Twoblock on Apr 02, 2006, 06:08 PMI didn't read where the polygrapher actually accused Corey of applying countermeasures. Appears to me that he was trying to gain a confession of researching the polygraph. If the accusation was never made, wouldn't the charts stand?
Indeed, the polygraper (Todd) did not actually accuse me of cheating.
He asked me at the beginning of our meeting what I knew of polygraphs and if I talked to anyone about polygraphs or searched polygraphs on the internet.
After the test, he went all out. He kept harping on the issue. That's when I started to realize that there's something going on and consequently led me to find this website.
Posted by Twoblock
- Apr 02, 2006, 06:08 PMquickfix
My sincere appologies. I guess my halfhimers kicked in. It was Persil-White that deleted his post. Should have done a little back checking before I made the statement. Damn, I hate to make mistakes but, if I do, I am man enough to admit it. Mostly.
Corey asked about FOIA. I believe you are correct about FOIA not applying to local PD.s. My advise was to file for a court order to obtain the charts. That might not even work, but it's worth a shot.
I didn't read where the polygrapher actually accused Corey of applying countermeasures. Appears to me that he was trying to gain a confession of researching the polygraph. If the accusation was never made, wouldn't the charts stand?
My sincere appologies. I guess my halfhimers kicked in. It was Persil-White that deleted his post. Should have done a little back checking before I made the statement. Damn, I hate to make mistakes but, if I do, I am man enough to admit it. Mostly.
Corey asked about FOIA. I believe you are correct about FOIA not applying to local PD.s. My advise was to file for a court order to obtain the charts. That might not even work, but it's worth a shot.
I didn't read where the polygrapher actually accused Corey of applying countermeasures. Appears to me that he was trying to gain a confession of researching the polygraph. If the accusation was never made, wouldn't the charts stand?
Posted by Corey_Adcock
- Apr 02, 2006, 05:53 PMQuote from: quickfix on Apr 02, 2006, 04:39 PMI see Corey clarified his original post above. After reading it, I must agree with you that the examiner probably suspected countermeasures. Which, under established polygraph standards, make the test results No Opinion/Inconclusive regardless of its original conclusion.
So, if a polygrapher THINKS you cheated, or used these countermeasures, than he comes to an inconclusive decision no matter what the results say? Am I understanding this correctly?
In other words, if a polygrapher doesn't like you, and you actually pass the test, he can just say he thought you cheated?
There has to be a way to confront this issue... NO?
So the test is even more of a joke!
Posted by quickfix
- Apr 02, 2006, 04:39 PMTwoblock: I have never removed any of my posts, ever. I have no reason to; you have me confused with someone else who must have. I have never challenged anyone's expertise in federal law. In fact, I have never even replied to any post on federal law matters. I am not an expert in federal law, never have been, never professed to be. I challenge you to show me the thread you mistakenly claim I deleted a post from. I see Corey clarified his original post above. After reading it, I must agree with you that the examiner probably suspected countermeasures. Which, under established polygraph standards, make the test results No Opinion/Inconclusive regardless of its original conclusion. Regarding FOIA requests, I don't think local police departments are subject to FOIA, but I'm not a FOIA expert.
Regards
Regards
Posted by Twoblock
- Apr 02, 2006, 01:28 AMquickfix
I feel free to chime in any time I please just like you and everyone else.
I am reluctant to answer you vigorously because you might delete your post as you did when you questioned my knowledge of federal law. That is after I answered you.
No I wasn't there and neither were you. It is my opinion that Corey produced a truthful chart because the polygrapher only harassed him about his knowledge and research of the polygraph. If deception was indicated on the actual relevant questions, why wouldn't the "interrogation" be centered there instead of where it was? Seems to me the polygrapher was trying to badger a confession that Corey had researched polygraphy. Probably on this site.
I feel free to chime in any time I please just like you and everyone else.
I am reluctant to answer you vigorously because you might delete your post as you did when you questioned my knowledge of federal law. That is after I answered you.
No I wasn't there and neither were you. It is my opinion that Corey produced a truthful chart because the polygrapher only harassed him about his knowledge and research of the polygraph. If deception was indicated on the actual relevant questions, why wouldn't the "interrogation" be centered there instead of where it was? Seems to me the polygrapher was trying to badger a confession that Corey had researched polygraphy. Probably on this site.
Posted by Mr. Mystery
- Apr 01, 2006, 02:39 PMQuote from: quickfix on Apr 01, 2006, 01:48 PM
P.S. going after someone's spelling mistakes is something only a moron does when one can't defend one's position.
Regards
I've generally found that someone who doesn't have the pride to make a well written argument doesn't have much of relevance to say.
Posted by quickfix
- Apr 01, 2006, 01:48 PMTwoblock: why don't you let Corey answer the questions I posed instead of answering them for him. Do you always finish someone else's story for them, especially when you weren't there? And it does make a difference what type of exam it was. One may result in selection for employment, the other a selection for incarceration. If he walked out on a pre-employment exam during posttest, it seems unlikely he'll be offered the position he was seeking. A crim exam is another matter. Another contention is your belief he produced "good charts". What does that mean, good countermeasures or good passing (NDI) poly results? How could he produce "good charts" of either, if the examiner went after him? Did you review his charts?
Finally, some posters confuse "harassment" with "interrogation"; although after reading Onesimus' posted NSA letter, there are, I admit, times when examiners go overboard.
P.S. going after someone's spelling mistakes is something only a moron does when one can't defend one's position.
Regards
Finally, some posters confuse "harassment" with "interrogation"; although after reading Onesimus' posted NSA letter, there are, I admit, times when examiners go overboard.
P.S. going after someone's spelling mistakes is something only a moron does when one can't defend one's position.
Regards
Posted by Twoblock
- Mar 31, 2006, 11:59 PMBefore someone calls me on it, the correct spelling is "apparently" I think. An error. Good Grief. And I'm not a fast tapper.
Posted by Twoblock
- Mar 31, 2006, 11:53 PMquickfix
It shouldn't matter what type of exam he was given. His question was about the polygrapher's continuous badgering about his knowledge of and researching polygraphy. Apparaetly the polygrapher couldn't determine if countermeasures were used or not and badgering was his way of fishing for a confession.
Corey
Appears like you produced a good chart. If it turns out that he failed you, then get a court order and abtain the charts and take them to an independent Q. C. firm. A court order is probably the only way to get them
It shouldn't matter what type of exam he was given. His question was about the polygrapher's continuous badgering about his knowledge of and researching polygraphy. Apparaetly the polygrapher couldn't determine if countermeasures were used or not and badgering was his way of fishing for a confession.
Corey
Appears like you produced a good chart. If it turns out that he failed you, then get a court order and abtain the charts and take them to an independent Q. C. firm. A court order is probably the only way to get them