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Posted by polyscam
- Apr 15, 2005, 08:40 PMDurkadurkadurka,
In my experience (which only loosely relates to this question): yes. However, my experience is different in that I applied for a local PD rather than the FBI. At the end of my exam I was told to be sure to return any material needed in order to complete my background investigation while the examiner bared a big 'ole grin. This would fall under the "give 'em hope even if you know they failed" polygrapher philosophy.
Quote1. Is it possible that I failed the poly without being notified (written or orally)? Could the polygrapher have lied just to help get me out of the building without being upset (what an insult that would be!)?
In my experience (which only loosely relates to this question): yes. However, my experience is different in that I applied for a local PD rather than the FBI. At the end of my exam I was told to be sure to return any material needed in order to complete my background investigation while the examiner bared a big 'ole grin. This would fall under the "give 'em hope even if you know they failed" polygrapher philosophy.
Posted by durkadurkadurka
- Apr 15, 2005, 07:32 PMNSAreject,
thank you for your kind and detailed response.
I apreciate your advice, and I am moving to make an FOIA request (today when i called i felt like talking to an xgirlfiend, trying not to sound desperate!). Any idea how long these take to process?
If it is not too much trouble for the readers of this thread, I would like to ask a couple of follow up questions that still are of great interest to me.
1. Is it possible that I failed the poly without being notified (written or orally)? Could the polygrapher have lied just to help get me out of the building without being upset (what an insult that would be!)?
2. if there was a problem with so-called "admissions" would this have been mentioned in my letter (though not in detail, of course)? should i appeal this if i don't know what was in the polygraph report? I should have launched an appeal, etc. at the begining but i thought it best not to cause trouble in hopes of future emplyment somewhere.
I obviously appreciate everyone's mercy, i.e., satisfying my curiousity over these issues. I realize that a lot of people ask these sorts of questions, but i have searched the forums to no avail. Anyway, as someone who read through this website (sans the countermeasures) a couple years back after (sadly not before) my experience, I can say that it made a huge difference to help me get over what happend (a truly traumatic experience for me)....it's very cathartic to know that it wasn't just me (why do i sound like a sexual abuse victim? :>). Sad thing is, i'd go through it again if it meant I could serve
thank you for your kind and detailed response.
I apreciate your advice, and I am moving to make an FOIA request (today when i called i felt like talking to an xgirlfiend, trying not to sound desperate!). Any idea how long these take to process?If it is not too much trouble for the readers of this thread, I would like to ask a couple of follow up questions that still are of great interest to me.
1. Is it possible that I failed the poly without being notified (written or orally)? Could the polygrapher have lied just to help get me out of the building without being upset (what an insult that would be!)?
2. if there was a problem with so-called "admissions" would this have been mentioned in my letter (though not in detail, of course)? should i appeal this if i don't know what was in the polygraph report? I should have launched an appeal, etc. at the begining but i thought it best not to cause trouble in hopes of future emplyment somewhere.
I obviously appreciate everyone's mercy, i.e., satisfying my curiousity over these issues. I realize that a lot of people ask these sorts of questions, but i have searched the forums to no avail. Anyway, as someone who read through this website (sans the countermeasures) a couple years back after (sadly not before) my experience, I can say that it made a huge difference to help me get over what happend (a truly traumatic experience for me)....it's very cathartic to know that it wasn't just me (why do i sound like a sexual abuse victim? :>). Sad thing is, i'd go through it again if it meant I could serve
Posted by NSAreject
- Apr 14, 2005, 09:15 AMdurkadurkadurka,
First of all, a position with an Intel agency requires a
TS/SCI clearance - as far as DoD agencies are
concerned, the TS part is done by DoD/DSS
investigators, and the SCI part is granted by
individual agencies. As an ex-NSA employee, I was
never denied (but, how kindly, put into adjudication
limbo, so I would get discouraged and give up) SCI
access, but now hold CIA and DoD non-poly SCI
accesses. I thought my situation, at NSA, would affect
my chances elsewhere, but I have found that other
agencies are a lot more reasonable.
If I were you, I would get, as much information as
possible, under the Freedom of Information Act
(but don't expect any poly results - mysterically, they
are exempt
. Any family members, that are
foreign nationals, or any regular contact with the same,
are always issues with Intel agencies. Saying that you
are sympathetic to any foreign nation, would be a
death sentence, probably for any level of clearance.
The fact, that your polygrapher came back and said
that you had failed every question, was obviously a
bluff - she was fishing for any derogatory information.
The fact, that you applied only a month ago, should
not be a concern - NSA takes forever (actually, it can
take up to two years, to get through the whole
process). I assume, that you had not read through
this site, before taking your poly, or you would not
have spent hours, "spilling your guts". It sounds like
you have nothing to lose, but to continue the process.
An option, might be to try and get hired on with a
company that would be willing to put you in for a Secret
clearance, then see what happens. However, you need
to be honest with any investigators (unlike with
polygraphers) about your experience with the CIA, or
they will deny you on, "personal conduct".
Check out the following link, for DoD clearance appeals:
http://www.defenselink.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/
Also, my last NSA polygrapher, the clown who denied
knowing about counter-measures, came back into the
room, after their normal break (what a bunch of B.S.),
and in an accusatory manner asked me, if I had used
counter-measures. I guess they get enough idiots and
suckers that fall for this crap. You know, it really got
old, sitting through numerous polys over the years,
watching them go through their silly, amaturish, scripted,
routines (it's the same thing, when monitoring those in
access)...
First of all, a position with an Intel agency requires a
TS/SCI clearance - as far as DoD agencies are
concerned, the TS part is done by DoD/DSS
investigators, and the SCI part is granted by
individual agencies. As an ex-NSA employee, I was
never denied (but, how kindly, put into adjudication
limbo, so I would get discouraged and give up) SCI
access, but now hold CIA and DoD non-poly SCI
accesses. I thought my situation, at NSA, would affect
my chances elsewhere, but I have found that other
agencies are a lot more reasonable.
If I were you, I would get, as much information as
possible, under the Freedom of Information Act
(but don't expect any poly results - mysterically, they
are exempt
. Any family members, that areforeign nationals, or any regular contact with the same,
are always issues with Intel agencies. Saying that you
are sympathetic to any foreign nation, would be a
death sentence, probably for any level of clearance.
The fact, that your polygrapher came back and said
that you had failed every question, was obviously a
bluff - she was fishing for any derogatory information.
The fact, that you applied only a month ago, should
not be a concern - NSA takes forever (actually, it can
take up to two years, to get through the whole
process). I assume, that you had not read through
this site, before taking your poly, or you would not
have spent hours, "spilling your guts". It sounds like
you have nothing to lose, but to continue the process.
An option, might be to try and get hired on with a
company that would be willing to put you in for a Secret
clearance, then see what happens. However, you need
to be honest with any investigators (unlike with
polygraphers) about your experience with the CIA, or
they will deny you on, "personal conduct".
Check out the following link, for DoD clearance appeals:
http://www.defenselink.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/
Also, my last NSA polygrapher, the clown who denied
knowing about counter-measures, came back into the
room, after their normal break (what a bunch of B.S.),
and in an accusatory manner asked me, if I had used
counter-measures. I guess they get enough idiots and
suckers that fall for this crap. You know, it really got
old, sitting through numerous polys over the years,
watching them go through their silly, amaturish, scripted,
routines (it's the same thing, when monitoring those in
access)...
Posted by durkadurkadurka
- Apr 13, 2005, 09:23 PMI am applying to a lesser known Intelligence agency, for an analyst position that requires a TS clearance with no poly. I was told the security process would begin this week, and this was before i receveid a prelim offer. I am concerned becasue I previously applied for the CIA more than two years ago... Now i'm getting a master's in area studies...an area of critical importance to this country.
I had a horrible poly experience, but I'm not sure if it was what disqualified me. I simply recieved a letter saying that that I had not "failed" the Security process and I was eligible to reapply after a year. I reapplied to months ago and i have heard nothing, which concerns me.
Let me say a little about my poly experience.
1. the person who interivewed me was a big jerk. It was the worst experience of my life.
2. First time through the exam, i was so nervous I couldn't breathe properly. I was nervous b/c i had read some about PGs, and decided they were completely arbitary. anyway, I was given a warning for using countermeasures. WTF?? She was no help at all.
3. We mostly talked thorugh all my concerns. I had hours worth. After getting through one test, she went to a room, came back and said i failed every question! said i needed to give up more info. THis ended the second day. She then said I needed to fill out a contact sheet for ALL dual citiziens I knew. Which i did. She said i would be invited back for a retest.
a month later I got the letter. I was heartbroken.
My questions are now:
1. DID i fail the test?
2. Will this affect my employment chances for lower level clearances/ other agencies? Can I even join the foreign service?
3. Should and how may I inquire?
4. What should I tell this agency. I don't want to lie, but I don't wnat to volunteer anything if it won't be helpful.
(.I am concerned because I said things which I didn't fully explain....e.g, "I might have overestimated my ability with regard to X language." What i should have said was "Now that another year has gone by, my ability in X language has detoriorated, i am concerned that it is not at the level it once was, but it can be quickly improved." Also, i said "I am sympathetic toward x country." What i should of said "I liked liiving in x country, and i think x country is a good ally of the US."
As you can imagine, all this stuff is weighing heavily on my mind. I am a good person, and I want to serve my country. Is there hope?
Thanks very much! sorry if there is too much info here!
I had a horrible poly experience, but I'm not sure if it was what disqualified me. I simply recieved a letter saying that that I had not "failed" the Security process and I was eligible to reapply after a year. I reapplied to months ago and i have heard nothing, which concerns me.
Let me say a little about my poly experience.
1. the person who interivewed me was a big jerk. It was the worst experience of my life.
2. First time through the exam, i was so nervous I couldn't breathe properly. I was nervous b/c i had read some about PGs, and decided they were completely arbitary. anyway, I was given a warning for using countermeasures. WTF?? She was no help at all.
3. We mostly talked thorugh all my concerns. I had hours worth. After getting through one test, she went to a room, came back and said i failed every question! said i needed to give up more info. THis ended the second day. She then said I needed to fill out a contact sheet for ALL dual citiziens I knew. Which i did. She said i would be invited back for a retest.
a month later I got the letter. I was heartbroken.
My questions are now:
1. DID i fail the test?
2. Will this affect my employment chances for lower level clearances/ other agencies? Can I even join the foreign service?
3. Should and how may I inquire?
4. What should I tell this agency. I don't want to lie, but I don't wnat to volunteer anything if it won't be helpful.
(.I am concerned because I said things which I didn't fully explain....e.g, "I might have overestimated my ability with regard to X language." What i should have said was "Now that another year has gone by, my ability in X language has detoriorated, i am concerned that it is not at the level it once was, but it can be quickly improved." Also, i said "I am sympathetic toward x country." What i should of said "I liked liiving in x country, and i think x country is a good ally of the US."
As you can imagine, all this stuff is weighing heavily on my mind. I am a good person, and I want to serve my country. Is there hope?
Thanks very much! sorry if there is too much info here!