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Posted by timber
- Dec 20, 2004, 10:42 AMThanks Dimas...
I have hired lawyer and a private investigator for this matter. It's expensive of course but I can't go the rest fo my life knowing that I got screwed over and not do anything about it. I really don't want reinstated with my old dept. I just want this B.S. charge off my record that was based on a B.S. poly report. So I can continue my career. He never did poly me, I wish he would have. He said there was no concrete issues to poly me on and the whole thing was really minor and couldn't understand my dept. even doing an IA on it, however he still had to do a report. I have received all copies of the entire IA and I really am astonished now after looking at the file. My attorney is filing a grievance on my behalf to the individual in charge of the polygraphs through out the state. We are trying to get the polygrapher to amend his report. I realize that's a long shot considering he would basically be admitting to a false report himself. I'll keep you guys updated. Thanks again...
I have hired lawyer and a private investigator for this matter. It's expensive of course but I can't go the rest fo my life knowing that I got screwed over and not do anything about it. I really don't want reinstated with my old dept. I just want this B.S. charge off my record that was based on a B.S. poly report. So I can continue my career. He never did poly me, I wish he would have. He said there was no concrete issues to poly me on and the whole thing was really minor and couldn't understand my dept. even doing an IA on it, however he still had to do a report. I have received all copies of the entire IA and I really am astonished now after looking at the file. My attorney is filing a grievance on my behalf to the individual in charge of the polygraphs through out the state. We are trying to get the polygrapher to amend his report. I realize that's a long shot considering he would basically be admitting to a false report himself. I'll keep you guys updated. Thanks again...
Posted by dimas
- Dec 18, 2004, 05:54 PMI think George has pretty much addressed all the points, but here are mine
1) If you were investigated, I am assuming that you were charged with falsifying documents or some related charge due to the discrepancy between what you had "told" the officer and what was on your report and subsequently what was on his.
This is a very serious issue when it comes to LE, especially considering the liability/lawsuit implications to the dept. This makes it understandable as to WHY this was a big issue to the Dept.
2) It is therefore, my assumption that you were also referred to IA. In this case I am quite sure that this was either 1) voice or 2) video recorded. I have yet to see any "official" IA statements taken without some sort of audio or video record.
3) The polygraph should have been recorded. Are you sure you do not remember being told that it would be recorded in one form or another prior to it begining? Was this a Departmental Poly or a Private Contractor?
4) You quit! This greatly limits your abilities to fight this. I am no Lawyer, but have been involved in the disciplinary process of many officers and I can tell you I have never heard of one who quit in lieu of termination ever getting reinstated or rehired.
5) Get a lawyer! Only he will know what the state laws are and what steps can be taken in this matter. Every state, county and city has different employment laws, so what may be true in my area may not be true in yours.
6) Contact the Human Resources Department and request a copy of your employment file. Do this NOW Any and all information you can also obtain regarding complaints against the Polygrapher can also be of great help.
1) If you were investigated, I am assuming that you were charged with falsifying documents or some related charge due to the discrepancy between what you had "told" the officer and what was on your report and subsequently what was on his.
This is a very serious issue when it comes to LE, especially considering the liability/lawsuit implications to the dept. This makes it understandable as to WHY this was a big issue to the Dept.
2) It is therefore, my assumption that you were also referred to IA. In this case I am quite sure that this was either 1) voice or 2) video recorded. I have yet to see any "official" IA statements taken without some sort of audio or video record.
3) The polygraph should have been recorded. Are you sure you do not remember being told that it would be recorded in one form or another prior to it begining? Was this a Departmental Poly or a Private Contractor?
4) You quit! This greatly limits your abilities to fight this. I am no Lawyer, but have been involved in the disciplinary process of many officers and I can tell you I have never heard of one who quit in lieu of termination ever getting reinstated or rehired.
5) Get a lawyer! Only he will know what the state laws are and what steps can be taken in this matter. Every state, county and city has different employment laws, so what may be true in my area may not be true in yours.
6) Contact the Human Resources Department and request a copy of your employment file. Do this NOW Any and all information you can also obtain regarding complaints against the Polygrapher can also be of great help.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Dec 18, 2004, 07:03 AMTimber,
I concur with Nunyun's advice that you get an attorney and seek legal action. I suspect that the fact that you resigned may limit your legal options, but the fact that you only did so under duress might also be of legal significance.
If you haven't already done so, it would be a good idea to start taking notes now about all the salient details of what happened, rather than relying on memory later. Do you have copies of the relevant documents (such as your report, the other officer's report, the polygrapher's report)?
It is relevant that the polygrapher said that he "really didn't have anything to polygraph you on" and that he "thought the whole thing was ridiculous and cutting hairs." Did he in fact polygraph you anyway? If so, this may be of legal significance.
By falsifying his report (attributing to you statements that you did not make), the polygrapher violated the American Polygraph Association's Standards of Ethics:
I suspect he also violated department regulations and state law.
By failing to audio- and/or video-record your polygraph examination, the polygrapher also violated the APA's Standards of Practice:
There is only one reason for not recording polygraph examinations: to allow the polygrapher to lie with impunity about what was said.
Your polygrapher's willfull failure to record the polygraph examination may be of legal siginificance.
If you can obtain details regarding the previous IA investigations of this polygrapher for doctoring polygraph results, that would also likely be helpful in any legal action you may take.
Is this polygrapher in fact an employee of the department you worked for, or is he in private practice? The wording of your post ("this particular polygrapher has been in several IA investigations himself due to doctoring poly's in favor of police departments") suggests that he might be a private polygrapher who contracts his services to local law enforcement agencies. If this is the case, then he might be subject to the regulations of a state licensing board, which regulations should be checked for potential violations.
If you would send me a private message, I would be interested in knowing the name of this polygrapher, if you'd be willing to share it.
I wish you all the best in pursuing this matter.
I concur with Nunyun's advice that you get an attorney and seek legal action. I suspect that the fact that you resigned may limit your legal options, but the fact that you only did so under duress might also be of legal significance.
If you haven't already done so, it would be a good idea to start taking notes now about all the salient details of what happened, rather than relying on memory later. Do you have copies of the relevant documents (such as your report, the other officer's report, the polygrapher's report)?
It is relevant that the polygrapher said that he "really didn't have anything to polygraph you on" and that he "thought the whole thing was ridiculous and cutting hairs." Did he in fact polygraph you anyway? If so, this may be of legal significance.
By falsifying his report (attributing to you statements that you did not make), the polygrapher violated the American Polygraph Association's Standards of Ethics:
Quote4.7 Standards of Reporting
4.7.1 A member shall not knowingly submit, or permit employees to submit, a misleading or false polygraph examination report. Each polygraph report shall be a factual, impartial, and objective account of information developed during the examination, and the examiner's professional conclusion based on analysis of the polygraph data.
I suspect he also violated department regulations and state law.
By failing to audio- and/or video-record your polygraph examination, the polygrapher also violated the APA's Standards of Practice:
Quote3.9.8 An audio or an audio/video recording of the pretest and in-test phases shall be made and maintained for evidentiary examinations, in conformance with governing state and federal laws.
There is only one reason for not recording polygraph examinations: to allow the polygrapher to lie with impunity about what was said.
Your polygrapher's willfull failure to record the polygraph examination may be of legal siginificance.
If you can obtain details regarding the previous IA investigations of this polygrapher for doctoring polygraph results, that would also likely be helpful in any legal action you may take.
Is this polygrapher in fact an employee of the department you worked for, or is he in private practice? The wording of your post ("this particular polygrapher has been in several IA investigations himself due to doctoring poly's in favor of police departments") suggests that he might be a private polygrapher who contracts his services to local law enforcement agencies. If this is the case, then he might be subject to the regulations of a state licensing board, which regulations should be checked for potential violations.
If you would send me a private message, I would be interested in knowing the name of this polygrapher, if you'd be willing to share it.
I wish you all the best in pursuing this matter.
Posted by timber
- Dec 17, 2004, 10:41 AMThanks, for the info nunyun, I really appreciate it.
George or Dimas does either of you have any advice?
George or Dimas does either of you have any advice?
Posted by nunyun
- Dec 17, 2004, 12:10 AMI am sorry to hear that
good luck..
good luck..
Posted by timber
- Dec 16, 2004, 11:36 PMI have tried to transfer to several other local depts and it seems my ex dept has told one of them that I'm a liar and no States attorney's will prosecute any of my cases. This is now being kicked around all of them. I just have no concrete facts on who said it, to who and when. Is that un real or what? This thing has been so blown out of proportion I can't even put it into words. Oh and this is good, my Sgt. stated after my hearing with the Chief "I will give you a good reference letter" sorry this snow balled. I called him two weeks later for a reference letter he said he couldn't. How's that for twisting the knife in a guys back.
Posted by timber
- Dec 16, 2004, 11:06 PMI appreciate your response.
I wasn't paying union dues and wouldn't until my 1 year anniversary.
Oh, and as far as the termination goes. Once I was informed of the termination I asked to resign so a termination would not be on my record. It was granted. I now know how dumb that was. I'm still kicking myself for that move.
Sorry to be stupid but what does PBA mean and Dimas?
I wasn't paying union dues and wouldn't until my 1 year anniversary.
Oh, and as far as the termination goes. Once I was informed of the termination I asked to resign so a termination would not be on my record. It was granted. I now know how dumb that was. I'm still kicking myself for that move.
Sorry to be stupid but what does PBA mean and Dimas?
Posted by nunyun
- Dec 16, 2004, 10:56 PMget a PBA attorney and seek legal action, or at least file the suit against the city for wrongful termination as soon as possible. That should get there attention. see what they say and go from there.
Perhaps Dimas will chime in but that is where I would start.
Even if you are on Probation you should have been paying Union dues so they should try to go to bat for you with a grievance but I am not ignorant to the fact that rookies have a rough go of things and the fact that there is probably a stipulation to your probationary status.
I just can't believe you took that poly but that is now moot.
Good luck
Perhaps Dimas will chime in but that is where I would start.
Even if you are on Probation you should have been paying Union dues so they should try to go to bat for you with a grievance but I am not ignorant to the fact that rookies have a rough go of things and the fact that there is probably a stipulation to your probationary status.
I just can't believe you took that poly but that is now moot.
Good luck
Posted by timber
- Dec 16, 2004, 10:44 PMSorry, I guess I didn't explain it enough. My Sgt. opened an IA investigation because My report was slightly different than the other officers report. I told him it was because I was in a hurry and only gave the officer the info for the pc for the arrest, so the suspect wouldn't get away. My report was very detailed and the Sgt. just wondered why my report was different than the other officers. I was new and the other officer was there for 7 years. The other officer backed me 100% and said the whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. The Sgt. was just being cautious checking out the new guy I suppose. I knew that and that is another reason I wanted to prove my innocence on the polygraph. I wanted him to know I was honest.
I didn't have any opportunity to have any counsel due to being on probation. I was basically between a rock and a hard place. It was my word against the polygraphers. I am really against the poly now and the tricks polygraphers pull, it's so wrong. My career is destroyed due to the polygraphers innacurate report. I have since found out that this particular polygrapher has been in several IA investigations himself due to doctoring poly's in favor of police departments. I am pursueing an amendment to my poly through his commander or I will seek legal action.
Oh, and the department is just over 100
Any advice anyone?
I didn't have any opportunity to have any counsel due to being on probation. I was basically between a rock and a hard place. It was my word against the polygraphers. I am really against the poly now and the tricks polygraphers pull, it's so wrong. My career is destroyed due to the polygraphers innacurate report. I have since found out that this particular polygrapher has been in several IA investigations himself due to doctoring poly's in favor of police departments. I am pursueing an amendment to my poly through his commander or I will seek legal action.
Oh, and the department is just over 100
Any advice anyone?
Posted by nunyun
- Dec 16, 2004, 07:00 PMNO and you should have never agreed to polygragh without a PBA attorney.
Sorry but your story is lacking something, unless you came from a three man department you never talked about an IA investigation or meeting with a detective for an interview. Where was your Union Rep?, I am sure that he would have advised against taking a poly as would almost everyone I know after you are hired.
Something is missing out of this story.
Sorry but your story is lacking something, unless you came from a three man department you never talked about an IA investigation or meeting with a detective for an interview. Where was your Union Rep?, I am sure that he would have advised against taking a poly as would almost everyone I know after you are hired.
Something is missing out of this story.
Posted by timber
- Dec 16, 2004, 02:51 PMI was terminated as a Police Officer for supposedly lying. I was sent to a Polygrapher to test me on a statement that I made to another Officer. It was a very minor issue. I basically told one officer one thing and put in my report another. I told the Sgt. what I told the officer wasn't a lie, it was a brief synopsis due to being in a hurry to apprehend a suspect and my report was the incident in detail. I advised my Sgt. all along I couldn't remember exactly word for word what I told the other officer but, I could remember the general conversation. My Sgt. thought I was lying and sent me to a polygrapher. I was actually glad because I wanted him to realize I was being truthful. The polygrapher stated that he really didn't have anything to polygraph me on and thought the whole thing was rediculous and cutting hairs. (he said she said stuff) The tragedy occurred when he wrote his report to my Sgt. He copied the direct statement from the other officers report and put that in his report saying I said that. I was totally shocked. Needless to say it made me look like a liar and I got terminated over it. I called the polygrapher to ask him if he tape recorded the interview and of course he said no. I didn't have a leg to stand on. Now my career is history over the poygraphers B.S. report. 
Anyone know of anyone else with a similar story and what the did after termination.
Anyone know of anyone else with a similar story and what the did after termination.