Normal Topic Send a Note to the Nueces County, Texas Clerk (Read 7412 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6157
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Send a Note to the Nueces County, Texas Clerk
Jul 19th, 2001 at 5:18pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
The Corpus Christi Caller Times reports today (http://www.caller.com/2001/july/19/today/localnew/5683.html) that the Nueces County Clerk is "asking" employees to submit to polygraph "testing" in connection with missing funds. The entire article is reproduced below:
Quote:
Thursday, July 19, 2001

County clerk's office employees asked to take polygraph tests

From staff reports

   Employees at the Nueces County Clerk's office are being asked to submit to polygraph exams as investigators continue to probe the disappearance of $4,700, said County Clerk Ernest Briones.
   The money, collected from court fees and fines, was found to be missing last month when office staff reconciled bank statements.
   Sheriff Larry Olivarez said the investigation has been difficult because the money was missing for several days before his department was notified. "It's a difficult case because of the circumstances leading up to the disappearance of the money," he said.
   The office has 25 employees but only employees in the collections and treasury sections of the office were asked to take the polygraph tests, Briones said.
   "They do have a choice," Briones said. "I think the law is such that they can refuse to take it."


As noted on the AntiPolygraph.org Polygraph News page, Nueces County Clerk Ernest M. Briones is giving employees a devil's choice between agreeing to have their honesty assessed based on a pseudoscientific trial by ordeal or refusing and appearing to have something to hide. You can help set him straight on polygraph testing by sending a note through his office's web-based feedback form:



or by e-mail to countyclerk@nueces.esc2.net or by phone at (361) 888-0580 or by fax at (361) 888-0329.

I used the web form above to send the following note:

Quote:
Dear Mr. Briones,

I am a co-founder of AntiPolygraph.org, a website dedicated to exposing polygraph waste, fraud, and abuse.

I read in the Caller Times that you are asking employees in your office to submit to polygraph testing in connection with $4,700 in missing funds.

You need to know that the validity of polygraph testing is unsupported by peer-reviewed scientific research. Polygraphy is fundamentally dependent on trickery -- not science, and while it has an inherent bias against truthful persons, it can be (and has been) easily beaten by deceptive persons through the use of simple countermeasures that polygraphers (despite their unsupported claims to the contrary) cannot detect.

These countermeasures are described in detail in AntiPolygraph.org's free on-line book, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, which may be downloaded as a PDF file or browsed in HTML format at:

http://antipolygraph.org/pubs.shtml

Perhaps your perpetrator (if indeed the money has been stolen) has read it. You should, too.

It would be prudent for you to abandon your ill-advised plan to resort to polygraphing your employees. At a minimum, you should draw no adverse inference against, and in no way retaliate against, those who prudently refuse to submit to this pseudoscientific nonsense to which you have unwisely decided to subject them.

Sincerely,

George W. Maschke
AntiPolygraph.org

PS: A copy of this message will be posted to the AntiPolygraph.org message board at:

http://antipolygraph.org/cgi-bin/forums/YaBB.pl?board=Action


I encourage others to send Mr. Briones a note. It is to be hoped that he will take heed and abandon his plans for a polygraph dragnet. But if he goes through with it, he won't be able to later claim that he was never warned.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box beech trees
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 593
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2001
Gender: Male
Re: Send a Note to the Nueces County, Texas Clerk
Reply #1 - Jul 20th, 2001 at 4:46pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Gee, polygraph 25 employees over a missing $4,700.00. Presuming the average cost of a polygraph is $300.00 (and I've read as high as $600.00), that means that they will spend $7,500.00 of the taxpayer's money on a useless test to determine how $4,700.00 went missing.

Must be New Math!

  

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." ~ Thomas Paine
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6157
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Send a Note to the Nueces County, Texas Clerk
Reply #2 - Jul 20th, 2001 at 5:27pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
The Caller Times article notes that the County Clerk is asking only those employees in the collections and treasury sections to submit to polygraphic interrogation. (It is not clear whether Mr. Briones counts himself among those whom he thinks should be polygraphed.)
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Mike
Guest


Re: Send a Note to the Nueces County, Texas Clerk
Reply #3 - Jul 20th, 2001 at 5:40pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Can anyone provide me with information regarding the validity of CVSA testing? I am currently the subject of an investigation where a vindictive Inspector conducted CVSA's on three fellow employees who have worked under my supervision at one time or another. They all passed even though I KNOW they are lying. The examiner is his fellow Inspector within the same agency. 6 months ago, A nurse alleged that I beat and choked an inmate and passed a CVSA. A videotape surfaced which captured the entire incident on tape and showed I did nothing like she alleged. How can she pass such a "reliable" test? Please help.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Administrator
Administrator
*****
Offline



Posts: 333
Joined: Sep 28th, 2000
Please re-post to CVSA forum
Reply #4 - Jul 20th, 2001 at 6:11pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Mike,

Please re-post your question in a new message thread on the CVSA forum:

http://antipolygraph.org/cgi-bin/forums/YaBB.pl?board=cvsa

That way, it will be more noticed than it will hidden here in an unrelated message thread.
  

AntiPolygraph.org Administrator
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Johm
Guest


Re: Send a Note to the Nueces County, Texas Clerk
Reply #5 - Jul 21st, 2001 at 3:04am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Of course, it would be absurd to polygraph all 25 employee's.  This would be what I call abuse of the polygraph instrument. The polygraph instrument wasn't intended to be, and shouldn't be used as an elimination tool.  I will guarantee you that 22 out of the 25 employee's, if interviewed properly, will be eliminated right off the bat as suspects.  You might find that one of the employee' was probably on vacation when this incident occurred.  If the investigator who is assigned this case does what he or she should do, then at the most, only two or three employees should be polygraphed.  The polygraph instrument is a great and reliable investigative tool, that's right, investigative tool, if used properly.  So stop bashing the polygraph and support it.  All of you who have taken polygraphs and failed, blame yourselves.  Let the truth be known, you got caught lying.  End of story
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Fred F.
Very Senior User
****
Offline


Get Educated.... Knowledge
is Power

Posts: 224
Joined: Apr 4th, 2001
Re: Send a Note to the Nueces County, Texas Clerk
Reply #6 - Jul 21st, 2001 at 3:55am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  

Quote:
 So stop bashing the polygraph and support it.  All of you who have taken polygraphs and failed, blame yourselves.  Let the truth be known, you got caught lying.  End of story


John,

You are obviously a polygrapher and normally I respect opinions of those who do believe in what they do.

However, You have to answer the fundamental question "how can a polygraph be deemed a useful and reliable "tool" when there is no scientific basis for the readings and that its "accuracy" has NEVER been proven by scientific method.

You call everyone who fails the poly a "liar" and that they should blame themselves. What is your explanation on how Aldrich Ames, a convicted spy, PASSED a polygraph "test" given by the "cream of the crop" polygraphers of the FBI and CIA? How can you explain why the police officers who post on this site and have successfully passed polygraphs in the past and who are seeking employment in other departments have their integrity and honesty compromised by someones interpretation of "readings" that are calling them "deceptive" or their results called "inconclusive?

You should read the stories of Captain Jones, Mark Mallah, False+ and the others who have had their careers ruined by someone who basically flips a coin based on "readings" of normal body functions. If the polygraph was as "accurate" and "reliable" as you would like everyone to believe it is, why is it relegated to such remedial functions as preemployment and convincing unsophisticated criminals that they all are guilty based on what you have "read"

John, the polygraph has no value to those who know the truth and have educated themselves to
The Lie Behind The Lie Detector


Fred F. Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box beech trees
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 593
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2001
Gender: Male
Re: Send a Note to the Nueces County, Texas Clerk
Reply #7 - Jul 21st, 2001 at 4:50pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  

Quote:
Of course, it would be absurd to polygraph all 25 employee's.  This would be what I call abuse of the polygraph instrument. The polygraph instrument wasn't intended to be, and shouldn't be used as an elimination tool.  I will guarantee you that 22 out of the 25 employee's, if interviewed properly, will be eliminated right off the bat as suspects.  You might find that one of the employee' was probably on vacation when this incident occurred.  If the investigator who is assigned this case does what he or she should do, then at the most, only two or three employees should be polygraphed.  The polygraph instrument is a great and reliable investigative tool, that's right, investigative tool, if used properly.  So stop bashing the polygraph and support it.  All of you who have taken polygraphs and failed, blame yourselves.  Let the truth be known, you got caught lying.  End of story


It reads as if you don't even NEED the polygraph, Johm. You have done the investigative work without even hooking anyone up to your machine. You have, over the internet mind you, read the minds of 25 employees  whom you have never even met and dismissed all but two or three of them as potential suspects. Tell me, can you read my mind now? Guess what *I'm* thinking, Johm?

bwwwaaaahhaaaahaaahaaaaa
  

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." ~ Thomas Paine
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box John (Guest)
Guest


Re: Send a Note to the Nueces County, Texas Clerk
Reply #8 - Jul 22nd, 2001 at 3:21am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Beech_trees,

Read my mind.  Maybe you're the only one who needs to be polygraphed.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box beech trees
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 593
Joined: Jun 22nd, 2001
Gender: Male
Re: Send a Note to the Nueces County, Texas Clerk
Reply #9 - Jul 22nd, 2001 at 5:12pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  

John wrote on Jul 22nd, 2001 at 3:21am:
Beech_trees,

Read my mind.  Maybe you're the only one who needs to be polygraphed.


'Needs'. Nice choice of word. It reminds me of the rubber hose treatment. Sorry John, I'm out of your reach, thank God.

A note to everyone else: Can you imagine what a powerful tool for the defense Joh(m)n's posts on this forum would be in successfully appealing or suing over a false positive in a polygraph test administered by him? Joh(m)n, would you say that your attitude is typical of your ilk?
  

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." ~ Thomas Paine
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Send a Note to the Nueces County, Texas Clerk

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X