Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Normal Topic CPRA Requests for LAPD, LASD Polygraph Documents (Read 15370 times)
George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5786
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
CPRA Requests for LAPD, LASD Polygraph Documents
Jun 30th, 2001 at 4:41pm
Print Post  
Today I sent out two California Public Records Act requests for documentation of LAPD's and LASD's polygraph policies. You'll find these requests posted, respectively, at:

http://antipolygraph.org/cpra/cpra-001.shtml

http://antipolygraph.org/cpra/cpra-002.shtml

I would encourage others to seek similar information from other departments.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: maschke@antipolygraph.org
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Fred F.
Very Senior User
****
Offline


Get Educated.... Knowledge
is Power

Posts: 224
Joined: Apr 4th, 2001
Re: CPRA Requests for LAPD, LASD Polygraph Documen
Reply #1 - Jul 19th, 2001 at 3:56am
Print Post  
George,

Have you received any response from LAPD or the Sheriffs Dept. regarding the CPRA requests?

I know the LASD is busy doing "Damage Control" from the escape!!!

Fred F. Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5786
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: CPRA Requests for LAPD, LASD Polygraph Documen
Reply #2 - Jul 19th, 2001 at 6:17am
Print Post  
Fred,

No, no replies yet. The statutory 10 days allowed the LASD to respond have clearly expired (I faxed this request so it was received promptly). But I expect a response by mail, and the mail can be slow, so I'll wait a bit longer before sending a follow-up note.

With regard to my request for LAPD documentation, it should have been received by now. I'll keep everyone posted regarding both requests.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: maschke@antipolygraph.org
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5786
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: CPRA Requests for LAPD, LASD Polygraph Documen
Reply #3 - Jul 25th, 2001 at 5:07pm
Print Post  
On 6 July 2001, LASD sent a reply to my CPRA request, which I received today (25 July). My request to LASD was for:
Quote:
1.  Any polygraph consent and/or waiver form(s) that
    employees of, or applicants for employment with, the
    Los Angeles Sheriff's Department (LASD) are requested
    and/or required to sign prior to administration of any
    employment-related polygraph test.

2.  Any LASD rules, guidelines, directives, circulars,
    communications, or other instruments governing
    polygraph policy.



LASD provided the following documents:
  • LASD's Polygraph Examination Waiver/Pre-Offer form (which has now been posted to AntiPolygraph.org, click the link to read it);
  • Bulletin No. 770-1629 dated September 1, 2000, which lists requirements for the position of Deputy Sheriff Trainee, with the following passage highlighted: "A thorough background investigation (including fingerprint search and polygraph examination) will be required of candidates.");
  • a copy of the Employee Polygraph Protection Act (with the following passage highlighted: "This chapter shall not apply to the United States Government, any State or local government, or any political subdivision of a State or local government.");
  • Section 432.2 of the California Labor Code (with the following passage highlighted: "The prohibition of this section does not apply to the federal government or any agency thereof or the state government or any agency or local subdivision thereof, including, but not limited to, counties, cities and counties, cities, districts, authorities and agencies.").


LASD provided no rule or guideline of its own regulating its administration of employment-related polygraph examinations. Assuming that LASD did not withhold any responsive documents, it would appear that LASD polygraphers conduct employment-related polygraph interrogations unburdened by any regulatory constraints whatsoever.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: maschke@antipolygraph.org
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Fred F.
Very Senior User
****
Offline


Get Educated.... Knowledge
is Power

Posts: 224
Joined: Apr 4th, 2001
Re: CPRA Requests for LAPD, LASD Polygraph Documen
Reply #4 - Jul 26th, 2001 at 6:04am
Print Post  

Quote:
LASD provided no rule or guideline of its own regulating its administration of employment-related polygraph examinations. Assuming that LASD did not withhold any responsive documents, it would appear that LASD polygraphers conduct employment-related polygraph interrogations unburdened by any regulatory constraints whatsoever.

George,

A few comments on the LASD Poly waiver/release of liability

"I understand that all questions to be asked on the polygraph test will be reviewed with me in advance, and I am free to stop the test at any time I wish and for any reason. I agree to stop the procedure immediately if I believe that anything being done, could be harmful to me, mentally or physically".

Does this mean that when the polygrapher starts with his "deception" routine and tries to pry information out of you that does not exist you can request to leave?.....Sure and by the way your results are DECEPTIVE and you have FAILED.

"I understand that during the polygraph examination, any or all of the pre-examination interview, examination, post-test interview or conversation may be audio and/or video recorded".

I would have liked to have this information made available to me for assistance in the appeals process, however, the next paragraph protects them from having to do so

"I agree to release the Polygraph Examiner conducting the polygraph examination, The County of Los Angeles, its officers, agents and employees from any and all liability in connection with this test and for the release of information and opinions to my background investigator and any and all other persons or parties interested therein".

This means that the polygrapher, the LASD, and the County of Los Angeles are basically given
carte blanche to do whatever they want and you can't seek retribution from them. You could NEVER get the audio or video of your "exam".

This tells me that once you have been deemed "deceptive" or your results are "inconclusive" the appeals process is a legal requirement that will get you no results and if they didn't have to do it, they wouldn't.

Great Work George, I never thought I would get to study this document freely. The LASD polygraph is truly a COIN FLIP, which side you end up on is basically up to the whim of the polygrapher.

Fred F.  Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
applicant
Guest


Re: CPRA Requests for LAPD, LASD Polygraph Documen
Reply #5 - Jul 26th, 2001 at 9:42am
Print Post  
compare to the State of Alaska (Alaska State Troopers) "Informed Consent Release and hold harmless for confidentiality of Pre-Employment Background Investigation Data"
"I recognize that individuals must clearly demonstrate their personal, medical, and psychological fitness to serve in the position of a police officer. I further recognize that an employing agency has both a legal and moral obligation to take every reasonable effort to ensure that any person employed by them as police officers will conform to the very highest standards.

I understand that I am authorizing an intensive investigation into all aspects of my personal, medical and psychological fitness, and that such an investigation will include contacting persons and/or organizations who have information relating to my fitness. I also understand that those persons and/or organizations may feel inhibited, intimidated or other-wise reticent about furnishing legitimate information concerning my fitness unless the confidentiality of their information can be guaranteed on a permanent basis.

I further understand that although some of the information contained in this report is a matter of public record, or would otherwise be accessible to me, this information will be inextricably interwoven with other confidential data to which I otherwise would not be privy. I therefore understand that I will not be provided or have access to the information obtained in the course of this background investigation.

Therfore I exonerate, release and discharge my prospective employer, the Department of Public Safety, and it's officers, agents, and assigns, now and in the future, from any claim of damages, whether in law or in equity, on behalf of myself, my heirs, agents, or assigns, for their refusal to make available any and all information contained in this pre-employment investigation, including but not limited to the identity of any person or organization who may have supplied information in the course of this investigation, as well as the substance of any such information supplied, even where such information has been the basis for my disqualification for further consideration.

I knowingly, voluntarily, specifically, and permanently waive any rights I may have to examine, review, or to otherwise discover the contents of this investigation and all documents related. I have had adequate time to review this form, I understand it's meaning and purpose.

Applican Signature________________________"


in other words, in order to protect the rights of others, you must first give up yours.......no if ands or buts
Undecided

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fred F.
Very Senior User
****
Offline


Get Educated.... Knowledge
is Power

Posts: 224
Joined: Apr 4th, 2001
Re: CPRA Requests for LAPD, LASD Polygraph Documen
Reply #6 - Jul 27th, 2001 at 2:47am
Print Post  

applicant wrote on Jul 26th, 2001 at 9:42am:
compare to the State of Alaska (Alaska State Troopers) "Informed Consent Release and hold harmless for confidentiality of Pre-Employment Background Investigation Data"

1) I recognize that individuals must clearly demonstrate their personal, medical, and psychological fitness to serve in the position of a police officer. I further recognize that an employing agency has both a legal and moral obligation to take every reasonable effort to ensure that any person employed by them as police officers will conform to the very highest standards.

2) this information will be inextricably interwoven with other confidential data to which I otherwise would not be privy. I therefore understand that I will not be provided or have access to the information obtained in the course of this background investigation.

3) Therfore I exonerate, release and discharge my prospective employer, the Department of Public Safety, and it's officers, agents, and assigns, now and in the future, from any claim of damages, whether in law or in equity, on behalf of myself, my heirs, agents, or assigns, for their refusal to make available any and all information contained in this pre-employment investigation, including but not limited to the identity of any person or organization who may have supplied information in the course of this investigation, as well as the substance of any such information supplied, even where such information has been the basis for my disqualification for further consideration.

I knowingly, voluntarily, specifically, and permanently waive any rights I may have to examine, review, or to otherwise discover the contents of this investigation and all documents related. I have had adequate time to review this form, I understand it's meaning and purpose.


in other words, in order to protect the rights of others, you must first give up yours.......no if ands or buts
Undecided




Applicant,

Thank you for sharing this very intriguing document from the State of Alaska.  Do they conduct polygraph exams also? Check the FOI laws and see if you can get that information released to you. Ask George Maschke if you need assistance.

1. They save they have both a legal and moral obligation to take every reasonable effort to ensure that any person employed by them as police officers will conform to the very highest standards. Do they conform to the same standards?


2. I would enjoy listening to the explaination of how you can't extract the information that they have interwoven into the confidential data. I don't think half of the investigators understand that statement.

3. In other words....We can gather all the information on you in a fair, moral, and legal manner BUT, don't bother to ask us what we have, YOU CAN'T KNOW and You waive all YOUR rights to see anything.

Is that ethical?


Fred F. Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5786
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
LAPD Documentation
Reply #7 - Jul 28th, 2001 at 8:19am
Print Post  
The LAPD documentation I requested arrived yesterday (27 July 2001). It includes:

1) Police Officer Applicant Polygraph Examination Waiver

2) Los Angeles Police Officer Polygraph Notification Form (76 kb PDF); a two-page instruction sheet to applicants with a map to the "test" facility (Parker Center) on the back

3) Report to the Board of Civil Service Commissioners - Pre-Employment Polygraph Examination for Entry Level Police Officer and Police Specialist Candidates - includes revisions to Personnel Department Policy 1.13. (The key revisions are in Attachment 1.)
« Last Edit: Jul 30th, 2001 at 12:45pm by George W. Maschke »  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: maschke@antipolygraph.org
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Fred F.
Very Senior User
****
Offline


Get Educated.... Knowledge
is Power

Posts: 224
Joined: Apr 4th, 2001
Re: CPRA Requests for LAPD, LASD Polygraph Documen
Reply #8 - Jul 28th, 2001 at 11:30pm
Print Post  
George,

I have read the LAPD waiver and it looks dangerously similiar to the LASD's. I wonder if the American Polygraph Association created that document. They both have that I release the examiner, dept., etc, from all liability.

I also read Officer Daines personal statement. I certainly hope that a police officer with that kind of honesty and integrity keeps his postion. Like Dimas, I hope his commanding officers will ignore the results of the polygraph.

Hang in there Officer Daine!!!


Fred F. Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo