My son took a polygraph test with the San Joaquing Sheriff Dept. in Calif.  He failed.  He is a 17 year Police officer, and served a year in Kosovo as a Police Officer for the UN> When he returned he has applied at many departments.  When he failed this test, he ask if he could appeal and they saied yes.  He took another more comprehensive test on his own and passed.  Still the Sheriff  Dept. turned him down.  He has been black listed because he had filed a Federal law suit against the Merced Police Dept. before going to Kosovo.  Nothing in his reviews would stop him from a new job, but the other departments use discrimination and violate his civial rights because he was truthful.  They use any excuess to hire him.  I need infor on how to file a suit against all of these dept.  A very upset Father

retsor wrote on Jun 4^th, 2001 at 11:57pm:


Retsor,

You and your son need to download and read The Lie Behind The Lie Detector from this site. Also you will find that there are other veteran police officers(Dimas) that have had bad polygraph experiences. Your son needs to keep applying and most of all Get Educated, because knowledge is power, There are many state agencies that need people and DO NOT POLY!!!(CA DOJ does) 

Most veteran police officers are honest, hard working people. Polygraphs can destroy people unless they fight back

Go to www.spb.ca.gov and browse for state law enforcement opportunities


Good Luck

Fred F.

Hey Burger, it sounds like you got caught lying too.  What an awesome instrument that Polygraph is, huh.  Is that why you are flipping burgers instead of being a law abiding, honest, law enforcement officer

Twoblock,

First of all, I would like to congradulate you and your wife for being married for 50 years. That is truly a blessing from God. 

Now to get to your first questions.  Any good investigator, whether a polygraph was conducted or not, wouldn't just point blank, ask accusatory questions until there was evidence found, or information obtained during the preliminary investigation, that  proved beyond a doubt, that the person being questioned, committed the crime.  Why should a polygrapher be any different. 

Question #2 about the "Stim Test."   Twoblock, are you familiar with radar(speed trap).  Did you know that before police officers or state troopers use this piece of equipment during their tour of duty, they had to make sure that the radar was properly calibrated. Did you know that the officers/troopers use tuning forks to check the calibration.  Well let's just say, the stim test is the polygraphers tuning forks. By the way, are there any noradar.com or antiradar.com sites anywhere.  I'm willing to bet you there are. There are some people today who have recieved tickets who said they weren't speeding.  In other words, there is always going to be someone, criticizing something.

Twoblock, have you ever read about a doctor misdiagnosing a patient?  Sure you have. But if you got sick, wouldn't you still visit one.  Have you heard about individuals in the clergy molesting little children.  Sure you have.  But is that stopping you from attending church.  While we are on this subject about child molesters, some individuals are still harping on the fact that since polygraph results aren't admissable in a court of law, then that should be sufficient proof that it's not reliable.  Well one of the best tools in America, used to monitor convicted child molesters is the polygraph.  There have been many sex offenders who have been sent back to jail after confessing to other molestations or parole violations after failing polygraph examinations.

I know Twoblock, these pedophiles are getting shafted too.  To answer your last question.  No, I don't think you should be subjected to answering a question pertaining to the faithfulness you have preserved for your wife of 50 years, unless it is relevant to the issue in which you are being polygraphed for. I don't think you are afraid of telling the truth, I believe all of the antipolygraph material that you have read, has you paranoid.

Well Twoblock, I hope I have answered your questions.      

John,   
 I am curious as to why you are so hostile towards burger, making the remark that he flips burgers instead of being a law abiding law enforcement officer is sinking a bit low don't you think?  
 I would also like you to know that I am A LAW ABIDING LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, who if you take the time to read my posts has had his share of negative experiences with the Polygraph and its examiners. I do not have anything to hide about my past, anything I have done to break the law I have posted in my polygraph experience post (Taking One For the Team 1 and 2).  I do not harbor any hate toward Polygraph examiners, as I do see some need for the confessions made during the examinations, I also feel that because of the way the law works the confessions brought out by the Polygraph often solve cases in which the criminal would have gone free due to a lack of evidence or an inadmisable piece of evidence due to shoddy police work/procedures in collecting and properly obtaining the evidence.  The distinguishing factor however is I am all for the "Admission" made during the Poly, but the results of the actual Poly are worthless and should never be the determining factor when deciding a persons future.  Its funny actually that you truly believe that anyone who does not pass the Polygraph is automatically a liar, you don't even have enough rationale to give a person the benefit of the doubt especially when the only true liar is the Polygraph examiner!   
  I whole heartedly believe in Innocent until proven guilty, I have lived in countries where it was the other way around and have seen what a travesty their judicial systems are.  Polygraphs are run much in the same manner, You are Guilty until proven Innocent by this machine ,or should I say the examiner because we all really know the machine can't determine anything without the "interpretation" ( and I use this word in the most lax manner) of the examiner.  Applicants for Agencies that use the Polygraph for hiring purposes aren't given a fraction of the rights that career criminals are afforded by OUR OWN LEGAL SYSTEM. And all these applicants really want is to  enforce the laws and protect the innocent for a mediocre amount of pay while placing themselves in a position to get shot on a daily basis.

On another note I often pondered why the examiners seem to get so angry when they are told someone knows the inner workings of their trade.  Then I remembered all the magicians protesting that show on TV that exposed their tricks to all of America.  A magicians magic lies in the amount of deception he can place on his audience, His magic is only as powerful as the ignorance of the audience and the secrecy of his trade.  Once his tricks are found out he will no longer have an audience to watch him and along with that no more money.  
Maybe that explains your hostility towards Burger who like many of us has been a victim of a trade which will soon lose its captive audience, A polygraph examiner without his deception is only a person with 8 weeks of useless training and a pretty good talent at interviewing people (Hardly worth the money they currently charge/make for a living).

dimas wrote on Jul 28^th, 2001 at 8:25am:


Dimas,

Don't fret about ol' John. What he doesn't know is that I am a police officer and have been for over twenty years. I've run polygraph exams for over ten years, criminal and pre-employment. The polygraph technique is nothing but a pyschological attack on a persons emotions. What John's problem is, is he actually believes what his polygraph school instructors told him. He either doesn't have the intelligence or lacks the common sense that tells the average person there is more to the story than what the polygraph gurus would have us believe. I think they call that "blind faith"... Anyway, George and Gino are absolutely correct. I was amazed that their book hit the nail squarely on the head. Polygraph is relied upon much too much. It is used as a way to find a quick solution to a problem. There is a problem with that line of thinking. Quick fixes like the polygraph come with a high price tag... How many lives are we willing to ruin because someone in authority wants to take a shortcut in a criminal or pre-employment background investigation? Are there acceptable losses? Not if it's your friend or family member who goes to prison or misses their dream job. The country will be much better off as soon as polygraph is banned. 

I know that attacks from polygraphers will come. So be it. No John, my license hasn't been revoked or suspended. No John, I haven't been turned down for membership in any polygraph associations. No, I haven't been sued or anything like that. Call me a hypocrite if you like, but when I decline to renew my license in the immediate future I will be able to say with confidence, I did what was right. John, you can do the same thing... stand up and admit that polygraph is a pysch tool that is no better than chance. You'll be amazed at how much better you feel when you acknowledge the truth and start thinking for yourself.  

Quote:


You are absolutely correct. I already have and am taking steps to assist in the banning of polygraph.  One observation... As human beings we are all "stained" for whatever reasons, but the good news is Jesus Christ died in order to pay for and remove all those stains. All we have to do to be washed clean is accept Him as Lord and Savior. Even Paul, who pursecuted the Christians before his conversion, received God's grace and mercy. Therefore, by Paul's example and God's mercy, here am I...