Cheyenne War Horse wrote on Aug 20^th, 2001 at 8:44am:


The Freedom of Information Act (5 U.S.C. 552) applies to federal agencies only. For example, you could not request a document from the Los Angeles Police Department based on the FOIA. However, the California Public Records Act (CPRA) does pertain to governmental agencies in the state. I believe most other states have similar statutes to facilitate public access to governmental information.

Under the CPRA, copy costs may be charged, but not necessarily. For example, no copy costs were charged in connection with two recent AntiPolygraph.org CPRA requests for documents used in the LAPD an LASD polygraph programs.

[quote author=Fred F. link=board=share&num=989357749&start=0#1 date=05/08/01 at 20:08:17]


Dzalez,

A couple of questions. First, most candidates for LAPD are not subjected to polygraphs unless the investigator finds something in your background application that raised a red flag. I may well be wrong but I have many friends who have applied for LAPD and NOT been polygraphed. Are you already an officer doing a lateral transfer?



I was reading with interest about the LAPD and Polygraphs.
I always thought they were a tool used with the background checks and all other Interviewing to determine Officer-Candiate applicants for hiring? 

At the FBI and DEA and BATF and Secret Service and U.S. Marshals?I would expect it mandatory.It should done periodically so they don't get into the habit of lying as they do have to do on their jobs a lot. Ex Director Louis J. Freeh and the new Director Robert Meuller III should have absolutely no hesitation being Polygraphed.But also? They should be made to hold the Eagle Feather symbol and of the great Grizzly and swear on it to be truthful.Both National Treasures.I did think Director Meullers III reply to the Senate regarding if he passed the Polygraph was inappropriate and not truthful.Just my opinion.His responsibilities are way too important to this Country and the Tribes to be playing footsie with Congress.Or the Tribes.

The Tribes have a absolute and legal and ethical right to know the FBI and other Federal LEO's will treat them with fairness and honesty and integrity.The Feds have a huge responsibility to protect the Tribes in a Federal Trust and Treaty obligation.Feds don't? I am on the phone and writing Letters.I don't like seeing the Tribes ignored or have excuses made to them. Being a war horse has no perks.

I know some FBI Agents that are in the big time trouble with me for lying. They dread talking to me because after @25 years of them they know darn well I will bust em for lying to me.Everyone lies and I am no exception but not about important things you don't.The Office of Professional Responsibility can usually turn their (twisted and bizarre and down right scary )thinking around.Or?They can kiss their Federal Badges goodbye.I have never willingly been unfair or untruthful with them. But they think their Badges sometimes make it ok to overload their mouths.I know I am way big trouble with them and who knows?But in the meantime?They better not lie to me.They will be saying...Holy Tatanka (Holy Buffalo)instead of the Tribes saying it.

It is like an article you write for the Newspapers?The professional Journaist will check out 5 sources before they do the piece.

I know the FBI I have had experience with "lie like a train" when they are confronted with direct questions. They "dance" well but they know I can catch them quick like a Bunny in a lie.I caught one Agent and in one millisecond he knew he has "had". A slight "catch" in his voice.Whoops. Gotcha. A couple others know me well after a lot of years.Don't lie to her cause she has addresses and phones numbers and Badge pullers for backup.As does every citizen and both have a right to defend their actions.That is Democracy.

I yelled at one who knew me the longest?He screamed at me.He was not lying.That kind of anger cannot be tricked. What a ongoing fight that is.He ought to know better than to irritate me.Actually as we are talking truth?I am still so mad I may go to his Office and not go in cause if I go in to a Federal Blidg?That FBI man will have me arrested or shot.I know him well...he is lying in wait.Hollar him out and tell him just who he thinks he is messing with.See? They do that and get me wound up.Then he tattles to his big bad FBI friends and then they are mean to me.I am alone and don't touch firearms and he is of many with the big guns.I am just one indian woman.See?He siced the whole Govt. on me.
And again the Tribes are saying.......ya got it....Holy Tatanka.....


Some people are just gifted with the ability to read silent and spoken and body language and facial expressions and get the truth.Actually the American Indians don't even need Polygraph machines.They know how to "read sign" very well.I am trying to not have mine speak.... "dead".

Traditional American Indians use the Eagle Feather to hold when giving evidence instead of the Bible in Court.The Eagle flys highest to the Great Spirit in the Heavens and brings wisdom.Eagle is what the Tribes hold sacred.It is of course what the Federal Govt. holds sacred the Federal Law Enforcment and Dept of Justice also honor it.


I know this is long but I was asked to state my feelings about Polygraphs.By the time the FBI reads this they will be in the War Room of the Pentagon plotting against me.Run?Is not EVEN in my vocabulary.I am from a Military family....Semper Fi....Always Faithful...USMC....Mohawk/Mohican...American Indian..

Cheyenne War Horse:

You may have already learned via the Antipolygraph.org website that mandatory polygraphs for all LAPD candidates were instituted in February 2001.  All candidates, lateral or off the street are required to submit to and pass a polygraph before they are hired.  The use of the polygraph was recommend following the "Rampart" scandal.

Very respectfully,

AMM

Cheyenne,

I see your point, but what do most people think about lying salesmen?  AND there are laws to protect consumers, what recourse does an innocent person wrongly accused of lying have against a polygraher? And yes UC cops frequently have to lie tocriminals in order to keep from compromising their cover, so the wrongly accused who get their dreams smashed by a polygraphers OPINION should be compared to the criminal element that UC cops deal with.....sounds fair and just to me.

[quote author=wannabe link=board=share&num=989357749&start=0#36 date=08/24/01 at 00:35:20]
Cheyenne,

I see your point, but what do most people think about lying salesmen?  AND there are laws to protect consumers, what recourse does an innocent person wrongly accused of lying have against a polygraher? 
[B/]
Gosh I am writing long notes.Sorry.You asked about lying salesman.,,,I did not give them the support that they need.The Car Dealer sets the system and if it is thinly disguised as fact? The poor salesman is not going to get a paycheck.Everybody hates car salesmen. It feels awful that the owner had no faith in my abilities and forced me into the "system". I did not sell six trucks in six days because the owner had anything to do with it.It was the Desk Manager and the Service writers and Mechanics who work behind the scenes.My knowledge of the Trucks and my faith in the product.Salesman in the Car busness are terribly maligned and abused.They are forced by Managemnent to lie to make a profit.You either play ball on their team or you got big problems.
[B]

And yes UC cops frequently have to lie tocriminals in order to keep from compromising their cover, so the wrongly accused who get their dreams smashed by a polygraphers OPINION should be compared to the criminal element that UC cops deal with.....sounds fair and just to me.
[B/]

You are correct regarding the wrongly accused.There is definately something wrong with being hammered on by the Polygraph and then the second day of work the Sargent tells you to lie well about something on a Case.In positions where they HAVE to lie ?Make it a positive instead of a negative and as you say having their dreams crushed.Hey?The guy is a great liar so put him in this capacity or that job.
We are getting way too politically correct.If they tell one lie and they are booted....? Darn it....A Congressman is caught in a lie?He is so very fired. Police Cheif tells a lie?He is flat fired. People need to grab ahold of themselves and stand for what they believe in.I think the Constitution is being maligned and I hate that.....a lot.

I was disqualified two weeks after taking the PQE. I told the truth, it was all i can give. Yea, there were somethings i stated that i wasn't proud of, but people change and grow into better people. The LAPD background investigators didn't give me much consideration. I went through alot to gather all of my documents, i feel slightly cheated. We fall... but we have to get back up and push harder.