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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Advice for polygraph infidelity test (Read 30092 times)
HarryO
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Advice for polygraph infidelity test
Mar 28th, 2001 at 10:29pm
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My spouse suspects me of cheating. She has no proof of this, and would like me to take a polygraph test. I am worried that it will produce a false positive result.  Does anyone have experience in this area?
Also - is there a difference between Doug Williams book that he sells online for $47.95 , and The Lie Behind The Detector that is offered on this site?
  
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Jane Doe III
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Re: Advice for polygraph infidelity test
Reply #1 - Mar 29th, 2001 at 12:17am
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   If your marriage has come to the point of having to sit through a polygraph exam to determine if you're cheating or not,then my best advice would be to move on with your life without her. If you still would like to prove your innocence then take your wife to the nearest Fortune Teller and sit down and have your past, present and future read in front of her. It is way more accurate than the polygraph plus it will save you some much needed cash that might have to be used for a divorce lawyer. As far as the polygraph books are concerned, the one on this site contains most of the same info. as the Doug Williams one. Again you'll save some much needed cash.
  
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George W. Maschke
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Re: Advice for polygraph infidelity test
Reply #2 - Mar 29th, 2001 at 12:36am
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HarryO,

It seems to me that it would be foolhardy for you to submit to a polygraph "test" and ignorant for your wife to put any stock in the outcome of such a "test." As we note in Chapter 1 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, the procedure has not been shown by peer-reviewed scientific research to work at better than chance levels of accuracy, nor could it, because polygraph "testing" is actually an unstandardizable procedure that is fundamentally dependent on trickery. Your marriage might be better off if you were to print out a copy of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector and read it together with your wife.

In his manual, "How to Sting the Polygraph," Doug Williams teaches polygraph countermeasures that are consistent with those described in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector. Mr. Scalabrini and I cover some additional techniques not included in Mr. Williams' manual, and I think we do a better job of describing how to distinguish between relevant and so-called "control" questions. In addition, we provide discussion of polygraph validity, policy, and grievance procedures that is absent from "How to Sting the Polygraph."

Mr. Williams provides illustrations representing the breathing patterns that may be employed to produce a "truthful" polygraph chart, while we do not. Another key difference is that the price of "How to Sting the Polygraph" includes consultation in the event you have questions. In contrast, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector is free, and Mr. Scalabrini and I make no promise to provide consultation, though we will do our best to answer questions posted to this message board or e-mailed to us.
  

George W. Maschke
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Nate. (Guest)
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Re: Advice for polygraph infidelity test
Reply #3 - Mar 29th, 2001 at 5:30pm
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Grin

"In contrast, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector is free,"

Just wanted to say that I think you guys are doing something great by offering this free.  It shows that you truly believe in your cause and not just trying to make a buck!  Thanks again for the book.
  
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G Scalabr
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Re: Advice for polygraph infidelity test
Reply #4 - Mar 30th, 2001 at 5:36am
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Nate,

Thanks for your kind words.  Members of the polygraph community have made a lot of comments that false positives are nearly non-existent and that stories are being blown out of proportion in order to sell manuals on polygraph countermeasures.  Many have wrongly attacked Doug Williams in this manner.  This is why we have insisted in providing our materials at no cost to readers.

Let us know if you have any suggestions for the next edition of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector the book.  I am considering making a separate board on the forum for comments and suggestions regarding the book.

Also, thanks for your continued participation on the message board.  You may wish to use your registered account so you can edit post and exchange private messages with other users.

Best,
  
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HarryO
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Re: Advice for polygraph infidelity test
Reply #5 - Mar 30th, 2001 at 7:17am
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Thanks for everyone's suggestions and advice. More importantly, thanks for providing this site. I am now armed with the Lie Behind The Lie Detector, as well as Doug Williams book. Overboard? Maybe....

I must say - I am scared shitless about taking this polygraph test. Not because I am guilty of infidelity, but because of a possible false positive result. If that happens it will be life altering for myself and my family. There are valid personal reasons why I simply must go through with the test. Trust me on this.

I spoke with a polygrapher today and he assured me that he has a documented 94% accuracy rating. I asked him how he could possibly come up with that number. His reponse was from confessions from people. Does that make any sense? I told him that I understood there is an 80 - 97% accuracy rating for the test, and that a 1 out of 5 chance for a false positive result concerns me. He brushed that off. Has anyone ever heard a polygrapher brag about his accuracy rating?  
  
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George W. Maschke
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Re: Advice for polygraph infidelity test
Reply #6 - Mar 30th, 2001 at 8:07am
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Has anyone ever heard a polygrapher brag about his accuracy rating?


Such bragging is standard operating procedure for polygraphers. The ostensible purpose for this is to heighten the deceptive subject's fear of detection while allaying the truthful subject's fear of a false positive outcome. I don't know to what extent polygraphers might come to actually believe their own bragging, but it seems to be a common phenomenon.

While the polygrapher with whom you spoke may believe that he can determine truth from deception with 94% accuracy, in cases where no confession is obtained, he is likely never to truly know whether the subject was truthful or deceptive.
  

George W. Maschke
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HarryO
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Re: Advice for polygraph infidelity test
Reply #7 - Apr 5th, 2001 at 6:27pm
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Thanks to this message board and the Doug Williams manual I passed my polygraph exam. I took the exam last Sunday. After the examination the examiner asked me if I studied measures on how to beat the polygraph. Of course I said no.

One thing puzzled me. At the beginning of the exam she asked me to write down a number from 1 to 10 and place it in my pocket so she couldn't see it. She asked me to say no and to lie when she asked me if I picked number 1, 2, 3, etc. During this time I used the breathing counter-measures as I did during all the Control questions.  Surprisingly, she was able to pick out which number I had written down.  

Since I was able to beat the polygraph through counter-measures, how was she able to pick out the number I chose?

To all doubters - Counter measures do work. Thanks again to all of the dedicated folks on this site who are passionate about their beliefs, and have taken the time to spread the word to others....
  
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George W. Maschke
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Re: countermeasures during the "stim test"
Reply #8 - Apr 5th, 2001 at 7:16pm
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HarryO,

Could you explain precisely what countermeasures you employed during the "stim test?" It is counterproductive to attempt to confound the polygrapher during this portion of the polygraph interrogation, and on the contrary, it is to the examinee's benefit to produce a strong physiological response to the number he/she actually chose, thereby convincing the polygrapher that he/she will show a strong response to any question answered deceptively.

There are ways a polygraph examiner could know what number you wrote without divining it from your polygraph charts. For example, if your polygrapher provided you with a pad of paper on which to write your number, a slip of carbon paper hidden beneath the 2nd or 3rd page of the pad could have left an impression of the number you wrote.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: maschke@antipolygraph.org
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Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Nate
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Re: Advice for polygraph infidelity test
Reply #9 - Apr 5th, 2001 at 7:49pm
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I thought it was strange that in all 3 different polygraph examinations I never received a "Sim Test".  I think they are a bunch of crap because logically thinking, if the polygraph is so accurate why would you need to do one?
  

“Whoever undertakes to set himself up as judge in the field of truth and knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods" &&&&-Albert Einstein &&
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HarryO
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Re: Advice for polygraph infidelity test
Reply #10 - Apr 5th, 2001 at 10:07pm
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George,

I used the breathing techniques to mess with the pneumo tracing, and sphincter muscle to mess with the blood pressure gage. These were used throughout the entire exam, including the stim test.

It is possible that the examiner watched what I wrote down.
  
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George W. Maschke
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Re: Advice for polygraph infidelity test
Reply #11 - Apr 5th, 2001 at 10:15pm
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Nate wrote on Apr 5th, 2001 at 7:49pm:
I thought it was strange that in all 3 different polygraph examinations I never received a "Sim Test".  I think they are a bunch of crap because logically thinking, if the polygraph is so accurate why would you need to do one?


Nate,

Note that the term of art is "stim test" not "sim test." "Stim" is short for "stimulation": the purpose of the "stim test" is to dupe the subject into believing that the procedure really works. It is expected that this will lead deceptive subjects to respond more strongly to the relevant questions, and innocent subjects to respond more strongly to the "control" questions.

James Allen Matte summarizes the rationale of this little charade at p. 307 of Forensic Psychophysiology Using the Polygraph:

Quote:
The theory of the Stimulation test postulates that once the innocent examinee is reassured that he/she will be found innocent of the crime for which he/she is being examined, his/her concern or psychological set will be focused strictly on the control questions to which he/she is lying. The forensic psychophysiologist (FP) [a buzzword for "polygrapher"] then may expect clear charts showing consistency of response to the control questions and a comparative absence of response to the relevant questions. On the other hand, by convincing the guilty examinee through the use of the stimulation test of the accuracy of the test and competency of the FP, the guilty examinee will become more fearful of the discovery of his/her lie to the relevant questions and his/her psychological set will be focused directly on the crime questions, which are now definitely more threatening to his/her well-being, dampening out any concern over the control questions, due to anticlimax dampening as explained in Chapters 8 and 9. The stimulation test will in effect stimulate the guilty to more pronounced reactions on the relevant questions thereby producing clearer, more distinct charts due to anticlimax dampening of the control questions responses.
  

George W. Maschke
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Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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George W. Maschke
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Re: Advice for polygraph infidelity test
Reply #12 - Apr 5th, 2001 at 10:23pm
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George,

I used the breathing techniques to mess with the pneumo tracing, and sphincter muscle to mess with the blood pressure gage. These were used throughout the entire exam, including the stim test.

It is possible that the examiner watched what I wrote down.


HarryO,

You goofed by doing this during the "stim test," but it's not a big deal. During the "in-test" phase (the part that really counts), by producing stronger physiological responses to the "control" questions than to the relevant questions, you ensured that you would pass.

I wish you and your wife all the best in sorting out the difficulties in your marriage, and hope that you'll never again feel compelled to submit to this asinine procedure.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: maschke@antipolygraph.org
Wire: @ap_org
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Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Vetsgirl
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Re: Advice for polygraph infidelity test
Reply #13 - Jun 12th, 2011 at 11:55pm
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I have taken a polygraph test to prove to my husband that I never cheated and it came up positive for deception for cheating. My marriage is crumbling and I have no idea what to do. I have never cheated on my husband and now I have no way to prove it. I am now being accused of things I haven't done. I need help but I don't know where to turn.
  
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Vetsgirl
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Re: Advice for polygraph infidelity test
Reply #14 - Jun 12th, 2011 at 11:59pm
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I need to add to my last post that I'm not going to download this book because it talks about how to pass a polygraph. My husband is going to have me take another one and I do not need that added to the fire when he is now checking everything I do. Please give me some advice here.
  
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