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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) cvsa (Read 25358 times)
steve
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cvsa
Jan 5th, 2001 at 3:57am
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The California Highway Patrol is currently processing applicants with a voice stress exam.
Does anyone know how accurate it is compared to the standard polygraph?

-steve
  
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George Maschke (Guest)
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Re: cvsa
Reply #1 - Jan 5th, 2001 at 8:11am
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Steve,

Neither polygraphy nor CVSA have been demonstrated by competent scientific research to operate at better than chance levels of accuracy under field conditions.

The main utility of both polygraphs and CVSA for the agencies that rely on them is as interrogatory props. "This scientific machine says your answer wasn't completely honest, Steve. There's something you haven't told me. I can't help you unless you are completely honest with me..."

Naive and gullible applicants who believe that these gadgets are truly capable of detecting deception sometimes make disqualifying admissions that they might not otherwise have made. But truthful applicants are also wrongly branded as liars in the process.
  
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George Maschke (Guest)
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Re: cvsa
Reply #2 - Jan 5th, 2001 at 5:42pm
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Chapter 11 of David T. Lykken's A Tremor in the Blood: Uses and Abuses of the Lie Detector (2nd ed., Plenum Press, 1998) is devoted to voice stress analysis. He concludes:

Quote:
There is no scientifically credible evidence that the PSE [Psychological Stress Evaluator], the CVSA, the Mark 1000 VSA, the Hagoth, the Truth Phone, or any other currently available device can reliably measure differences in "stress" as reflected in the human voice. There is considerable evidence that these devices, used in connection with standard lie detection test interrogations, discriminate the deceptive from the truthful at about chance levels of accuracy; that is, the voice stress "lie test" has roughly zero validity. One business enterprise to learn this, to their cost, was the high-tech house of prostitution mentioned in an epigraph to this chapter. According to a 1979 story in the Chicago Sun Times, an undercover agent for the Cook County sheriff's vice squad was required to submit to a PSE lie test when he visited the house posing as a client. The test questions had to do with whether he was connected in any way with the police. To his surprise, the agent passed the test and was granted client privileges. The PSE was confiscated in the ensuing sheriff's raid but the news report does not reveal what finally became of it. Let us hope the Cook County sheriff is not using it to interrogate criminal suspects....
  
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Joe (Guest)
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Re: cvsa
Reply #3 - Mar 14th, 2001 at 4:57pm
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It's been almost 10 years now since I was arrested for a crime I did not commit. It was a relatively minor offense, and so I willingly accepted a voice stress test to "prove" my innocence. (The police would not accept the word of my wife and family that I was at home at the time of the crime.) I didn't even get a lawyer at the time, I was so convinced the case would be over quickly. The guy who gave the test said I failed it. I asked to take it again. He said I failed it again. Then of course I had to hire a lawyer. After spending $7,000, the case was finally dropped. Interestingly, the bargaining chips my lawyer used was a polygraph test I took by the best polygraph technician in NY state and the fact that I had once had a top secret clearance from NSA. It said I had been telling the truth all along! Go figure.
  
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Rose (Guest)
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Re: cvsa HINTS?
Reply #4 - May 8th, 2001 at 3:46pm
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I have to take a voice stress test.  Someone already told me it is baloney, but does anyone have any hints how to pass i.e. like the poly, does one alter ones voice during control questions? And if one did, what is considered a deceitful sound? Just different from the uncontrolled questions? Or just answer everything the same?  Thanks, Rose
  
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George W. Maschke
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Re: cvsa
Reply #5 - May 8th, 2001 at 4:43pm
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Rose,

If at all possible, you should refuse to submit to any CVSA "test." Especially if you have been accused of a crime. If you are innocent, you run a significant risk of being falsely branded a liar. Other than this advice, I would give you the same answer I gave to "Mikeforce" in an earlier thread:

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I'm not aware of any technique for modifying one's voice that would ensure production of a "truthful" CVSA chart. One CVSA examiner has suggested that adopting an "I don't give a shit" attitude (pardon the vulgarity) seems to help increase one's chances of passing.

In addition, the behavioral countermeasures for polygraph interrogations described at pp. 69-74 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector (pp. 83-88 of the PDF file) would apply to interrogations in general, including CVSA interrogations.
  

George W. Maschke
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Rose (Guest)
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Re: cvsa
Reply #6 - May 11th, 2001 at 4:11pm
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George, I have to take it for this job.  One thing I have a question about is you said to use the same measures for a polygraph. How would you do that with the voice? On control questions make your voice sound different?  Waivery? Stronger? Louder? Hoarser?   I was told just to stay calm and that the voice stress test is nothing but a "hoax" so to speak...not secret factor in the voice they can see but is undetectable to the ear...????  Thank you...
  
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George W. Maschke
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Re: cvsa
Reply #7 - May 11th, 2001 at 4:30pm
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Rose,

The "behavioral countermeasures" to which I referred you have nothing to do with altering your voice while answering the "control" questions. They are concerned with your attire, grooming, eye contact, etc. See the pages I referenced for details.

After your CVSA "test," you might consider posting a message in a new thread to share your experience for the benefit of others.

  

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Rose (Guest)
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Re: cvsa
Reply #8 - May 12th, 2001 at 6:11pm
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O.k., I will tell you what happens. I will also try to read what you referred to. Thanks, Rose
  
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Burger
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Re: cvsa
Reply #9 - Jun 1st, 2001 at 11:53pm
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I have a question. If polygraphists believe that the polygraph is accurate, why is it they believe that CVSA is "less than chance" regarding accuracy? Is CVSA a financial threat to a polygraphists income? I know alot about the polygraph and am thoroughly  convinced it's nothing more than a mind game... I suspect the CVSA is also.  Peoples lives potentially being ruined for their own job security? Polygraph examiners spew an "integrity is everything" doctrine all the time, especially with one another. Who are they trying to convince, themselves? I think the best way to bring about the end of both polygraph and CVSA is to enhance the finger pointing against each other, let the courts get involved and watch the crumbling begin.   Wink
  
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G Scalabr
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Re: cvsa
Reply #10 - Jun 2nd, 2001 at 2:57am
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I have a question. If polygraphists believe that the polygraph is accurate, why is it they believe that CVSA is "less than chance" regarding accuracy? Is CVSA a financial threat to a polygraphist’s income?


BINGO. . .

Burger,

It is apparent that the polygraph industry feels threatened by CVSA--and for good reason.  While neither is a reliable means of determining whether or not someone is telling the truth, CVSA has several advantages over the polygraph.

1)  Cost:  Opting for CVSA allows an agency substantial savings over polygraph.  The units cost roughly $1,000 as compared to $10,000 or more for a modern computerized polygraph.  Furthermore, CVSA examiner training is cheaper, primarily because of the short time period required.  CVSA examiner training is only one week long (as opposed to 8-10 weeks for polygraph school).

2)  Susceptibility to Countermeasures:  There are no known reliable ways in which an examinee can manipulate the results of CVSA to create a favorable outcome.  Polygraphy, on the other hand, is easily defeated by simple countermeasures.

3)  Value as an interrogation prop:  Polygraphy is plagued by a well-deserved reputation for unreliability.  A substantial amount of even the most unsophisticated subjects know this and can counter an examiner's accusations by reminding him of the "test's" unreliability.  CVSA, on the other hand, is a relative unknown.  Examinees are less familiar with it, and less likely to know that it has never been proven to be more accurate than chance in a peer-reviewed study.  

The old cliché "those who live in glass houses should not throw stones" seems particularly apt here.  The polygraph industry has no legitimate authority to be attacking another "technology" for lack of accuracy when its own craft has yet to produce better than chance accuracy in a peer-reviewed study under field conditions.  The disparaging remarks about CVSA being made by polygraphers are being made for no purpose other than to protect their own fraudulent art.
  
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Fred F.
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Re: cvsa
Reply #11 - Jun 3rd, 2001 at 12:49am
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Quote:
BINGO. . .



It is apparent that the polygraph industry feels threatened by CVSA--and for good reason.  While neither is a reliable means of determining whether or not someone is telling the truth, CVSA has several advantages over the polygraph.

1)  Cost:  CVSA examiner training is cheaper, primarily because of the short time period required.  CVSA examiner training is only one week long (as opposed to 8-10 weeks for polygraph school).

2)  Susceptibility to Countermeasures:  
3)  Value as an interrogation prop:

4)The old cliché "those who live in glass houses should not throw stones" seems particularly apt here.  The polygraph industry has no legitimate authority to be attacking another "technology" for lack of accuracy when its own craft has yet to produce better than chance accuracy in a peer-reviewed study under field conditions.  The disparaging remarks about CVSA being made by polygraphers are being made for no purpose other than to protect their own fraudulent art.



Gino,

Some very interesting facts that you have presented here

1) It's quite scary to learn that a guy with one week of "training" can tell that your voice sound patterns are indicating "deception". On the other hand, the polygrapher undergoes 8-10 weeks of training and is branded an "expert" on the physiology of the human body. Another thought is how many of these guys have been to college anyway? probably very few. They are able to prove "deception" by the slightest "deviation" of your breathing patterns and blood pressure and sweat activity in your fingers or by variations in your speech patterns.

It takes a medical student 8 years to learn the function of the human body, then they must spend an additional 2-5 years as an intern and resident learning their specialty.

Can it be that a polygrapher is more expert on human physiology after 8-10 weeks than someone with 8-10 years of medical education and 2-5 more years of post graduate work?

2) There is no way to counter something that has no scientific or research evidence of it's value. The company who made it will say anything as long as people will buy their sales pitch and the product.

As for the polygraph, well everyone who reads this message board knows the story.

3) If everyone knew they were worthless props, WATCH OUT!!! Any claim of accuracy or reliability or worthiness is GONE. Then these people are really back to square on.

4) Let the games wage on.  The house of cards is about to tumble!!!!


Fred F.  Wink
  
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Lee_Manning
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Re: cvsa
Reply #12 - Jun 9th, 2001 at 1:32am
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I Took a CVSA on Thursday, Because a Superior Threatened Me about a month ago. I was told that these are almost 100% accurate. I know what was said to me in that office and I did NOT Lie. Yet The Proctor Said The "Cold Call" was that I showed Deceit?? WTF?. Now what?. It sounds Like someone is covering someones butt. and it happens to be the Florida Inspector Generals office too. they said they would now down-grade the investigation, and now its two peoples word against mine. I have never been so Embarrassed in my life. I told The Truth and It called me a Liar. ???
  
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George
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Re: cvsa
Reply #13 - Jun 9th, 2001 at 2:30am
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Forget about that CVSA stuff.  Contact the APA and find a polygraph examiner in your area immediately.  Take a polygraph examination to verify your truthful answers.
  
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George W. Maschke
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Re: cvsa
Reply #14 - Jun 9th, 2001 at 8:21pm
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Lee,

CVSA (like polygraph "testing") is a fraud. I think you should seek a consultation with an attorney experienced in Florida labor law regarding your situation. You might also consider contacting local reporters and taking your story public. In addition, feel free to post details of your case in a new message thread in this forum, if you feel comfortable doing so.

Regarding "George's" advice that you take a polygraph "test," I suggest that you download and read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector before you submit to yet another pseudoscientific lie detector "test."
  

George W. Maschke
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