Normal Topic Question for the polygraphers: What is your reward for obtaining confessions? (Read 945 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Inquisitor
Guest


Question for the polygraphers: What is your reward for obtaining confessions?
Jul 2nd, 2023 at 10:05am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Can the polygraphers on this board come clean for a moment?  What reward do you all get when you obtain a signed confession or disqualifying admission from a subject?   

Do you get a pay raise, bonus, promotion opportunity, or just bragging rights in the office?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box GOOD FELON
Guest


Re: Question for the polygraphers: What is your reward for obtaining confessions?
Reply #1 - Jul 6th, 2023 at 12:40pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I would like to know the answer to this as well.  I hear a confession is the goal of every polygrapher, just like a police interrogation.  What is the reward for obtaining confessions?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box John M.
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 179
Location: Tampa, Florida
Joined: May 3rd, 2017
Gender: Male
Re: Question for the polygraphers: What is your reward for obtaining confessions?
Reply #2 - Jul 7th, 2023 at 4:40pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
Can the polygraphers on this board come clean for a moment?  What reward do you all get when you obtain a signed confession or disqualifying admission from a subject? 

Do you get a pay raise, bonus, promotion opportunity, or just bragging rights in the office?

It is extremely immoral and unethical to advance in your career by ruining the careers of others.

Of course, coercing confessions is what it's all about. Take this comment from Don Grubin in an article for The Guardian a few years back:

Grubin believes the polygraph reveals the importance of a question to the individual under test, its emotional significance, and the cognitive work required if they lie when answering. “All of that ends up being seen in the physiological response,” he says. “It’s not detecting lies, and shouldn’t be thought of as a lie detector. It is an indicator of the salience of the question and the cognitive processing associated with it. It also encourages disclosures for reasons we don’t understand, and in that respect it might be thought of as a truth facilitator. In the end, test outcome and disclosure are both important, and complementary.”
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/mar/05/there-is-no-bomb-what-i-learned-...

If the ultimate goal is to produce "disclosures," it would make sense that the more "disclosures" a polygraph operator obtains, the more accolades (bonuses, promotions, letters of commendation, etc.) they would receive. 

I made several disclosures during my five attempts at the polygraph "test," but none were ever deemed damaging enough.

My career and reputation were destroyed by the Insider Threat Program at the Defense Intelligence Agency because I simply couldn't "successfully complete" the Polygraph Credibility Assessment.

Operating directly under the National Counterintelligence Executive, the Insider Threat Program's mission is to eliminate threats and catch spies. Thanks to the polygraph, brother, business is good.

In a document that I was able to obtain through discovery, the Insider Threat Program Coordinator, Steven D. McIntosh, wrote the attached memorandum. The last paragraph is where he sings the praises of his team. Without a doubt, I was one of those 11 where his team took credit for the identification and/or resolution of a CI matter in 2012. Also, notice how the number jumped to 38 in 2013. 


  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
Back to top
Twitter  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Moe Szyslak
Guest


Re: Question for the polygraphers: What is your reward for obtaining confessions?
Reply #3 - Jul 10th, 2023 at 11:44pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
quickfix, are you there?  Care to chime in?  How reward do YOU get for the confessions you obtain?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box quickfix
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 371
Joined: Jan 15th, 2006
Re: Question for the polygraphers: What is your reward for obtaining confessions?
Reply #4 - Jul 11th, 2023 at 10:50am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
My reward is the satisfaction of a job well done.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6220
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Question for the polygraphers: What is your reward for obtaining confessions?
Reply #5 - Jul 11th, 2023 at 12:39pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
In his 2007 book Gatekeeper: Memoirs of a CIA Polygraph Examiner, John F. Sullivan notes that CIA employees could receive a cash "Exceptional Performance Award" for special accomplishments. The CIA polygrapher who obtained CIA clerical employee Sharon Scranage's espionage confession received a $10,000 award.


Sullivan also notes that "PD [Polygraph Division] management had instituted a policy whereby a supervisor could give an examiner an on-the-spot or instant award for what the supervisor saw as a job well done. There were two awards: a Level I, which was a leather portfolio, and a Level II, which was a pen and pencil set."
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Mr. Truth
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 194
Joined: Aug 4th, 2003
Re: Question for the polygraphers: What is your reward for obtaining confessions?
Reply #6 - Jul 11th, 2023 at 8:00pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
The ones who "work well" with offender treatment programs seem to get a lot more referrals for business as a reward. Why would a treatment provider want you to pass through quickly, versus not, where languishing in the system turns you into a little cash cow for the polygraph cottage industry and the provider? 

Fail an exam (being generous here calling it an "exam") and what happens? Automatic enrollment into a failed polygraph module that lasts 4 weeks or so (on top of whatever other courses the offender is currently taking) so you can work on your issues. Requirement for another test after completing the module (so there's another several hundred dollars for the polygrapher - what's their incentive to pass you?). Plus, court supervision people get to look effective by "consequencing" you for failure, like assigning community service hours.

Even on repeated tests where results are at odds with one another, their reward for a job well done is keeping you in the churn of repeated polygraphs. If you know you have a "client" who is going to be in the system for years (because some states tie the entire term of supervision to the time you have to stay in treatment), why wouldn't a polygrapher and the team keep you in that cycle (at least up until the very end)? It's a payday for everyone, but you.

On the job/applicant screening side, you what? Think you're doing a good job by failing people who were being truthful? Aren't there enough people on this forum claiming to have the same experience/outcome of being labeled as a liar that people aren't wising up to the fact polygraphs are a sham? That's a great government job to have. Who really knows if you're effective or not? There's no way to measure that. On the other side, ever prevent a spy from disclosing secrets? Bueller? Bueller? That's right, never.

"Yet no scientific evidence exists demonstrating that polygraph screening tests, whether administered during the application process or as part of a routine security reinvestigation, have any validity. Studies undertaken for the Department of Defense's Polygraph Institute, which trains FBI polygraphers, reveal that screening tests fail time after time."
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Question for the polygraphers: What is your reward for obtaining confessions?

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X