Normal Topic Failed 2nd Poly? Any Advice? (Read 1669 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Rayburn12
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Failed 2nd Poly? Any Advice?
May 13th, 2018 at 4:03pm
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Maybe someone here can help calm my nerves and let me know if itís over for me with this agency.

I had my 1st polygraph recently and I thought it went rather well. The lady was very nice but she told me I hadn't passed the life style portion, specifically 3 questions: Serious Crime, Drug use in 2 years and falsifying information on my security forms. I was rescheduled for the next day to do that part over again.
The next day, I met the new polygrapher and on the way to the room she came off incredibly nice, we made small talk and she even made a few jokes, but as soon as the door closed she was a completely different person. She grilled/interrogated me for nearly 5 hours on those 3 questions. Needless to say I haven't committed a serious crime and haven't done any drugs in 13 years nor did I lie on my forms. She didn't believe me and kept telling me I wasn't being honest and that unless I didn't confessed she would have to end the poly.
I told her I want this job more than anything and I'm being 100% honest I haven't done anything wrong. She said "well unless you don't have anything to confess I have to end this." She unhooked me from the machine and told me I failed and that she would be surprised if I got a call back to do a retake. She told me there was no way I hadnít done drugs in college, Iím allergic to marijuana, one puff and my throat constricts to where I canít breathe. She said I could have done coke then, etc.
In total, she ran at minimum of 10 charts but could have been up to 15 saying she needed more data. Every time she came back to the room she said "your holding back, youíre not giving me everything."  She did tell me that I was passing one chart but then would fail the next which must have been because ďIím lying.Ē I wasn't doing anything different the entire time. Half the poly was verbal "Yes" or "No" the other half was nodding and shaking my head. I was so upset that she told me I failed and that it was pretty much over for me with this job I honestly almost cried. She saw how upset I was, she told me in a soft voice, ďIíll work with you and go to bat for you if you just confess to what you have done.Ē I told her I haven't done anything wrong and I don't know what you want me to say. At that point she told me again that I failed, she opened the door and escorted me back to the lobby.
Very strangely, as soon as we were out of that room she was incredibly friendly to me. I was nearly in tears from my 5 hour interrogation and hearing I wasn't getting this job and sheís laughing and carrying on making small talk with me.
I honestly donít know how I could have failed. I live a simplistic life, donít drink or do drugs, I go to church, never been in trouble, graduated Valedictorian and had amazing references including the Mayor and now because of this polygraph I think my chances are over.
What do you think? Did I truly fail or was this just some trick to see if I would crack? The background investigator did ask one of my references ďwhat it would take to make me crack.Ē Thought that was weird.
O and one more thing, near to the end she said because I was such a liar she feared I was a threat to national security and I must be trying to infiltrate their agency for malicious reasons. Absolute craziness.
What do you all think?
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Grumbles
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Re: Failed 2nd Poly? Any Advice?
Reply #1 - May 13th, 2018 at 6:53pm
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Maybe someone here can help calm my nerves and let me know if itís over for me with this agency.

I had my 1st polygraph recently and I thought it went rather well. The lady was very nice but she told me I hadn't passed the life style portion, specifically 3 questions: Serious Crime, Drug use in 2 years and falsifying information on my security forms. I was rescheduled for the next day to do that part over again.
The next day, I met the new polygrapher and on the way to the room she came off incredibly nice, we made small talk and she even made a few jokes, but as soon as the door closed she was a completely different person. She grilled/interrogated me for nearly 5 hours on those 3 questions. Needless to say I haven't committed a serious crime and haven't done any drugs in 13 years nor did I lie on my forms. She didn't believe me and kept telling me I wasn't being honest and that unless I didn't confessed she would have to end the poly.
I told her I want this job more than anything and I'm being 100% honest I haven't done anything wrong. She said "well unless you don't have anything to confess I have to end this." She unhooked me from the machine and told me I failed and that she would be surprised if I got a call back to do a retake. She told me there was no way I hadnít done drugs in college, Iím allergic to marijuana, one puff and my throat constricts to where I canít breathe. She said I could have done coke then, etc.
In total, she ran at minimum of 10 charts but could have been up to 15 saying she needed more data. Every time she came back to the room she said "your holding back, youíre not giving me everything."  She did tell me that I was passing one chart but then would fail the next which must have been because ďIím lying.Ē I wasn't doing anything different the entire time. Half the poly was verbal "Yes" or "No" the other half was nodding and shaking my head. I was so upset that she told me I failed and that it was pretty much over for me with this job I honestly almost cried. She saw how upset I was, she told me in a soft voice, ďIíll work with you and go to bat for you if you just confess to what you have done.Ē I told her I haven't done anything wrong and I don't know what you want me to say. At that point she told me again that I failed, she opened the door and escorted me back to the lobby.
Very strangely, as soon as we were out of that room she was incredibly friendly to me. I was nearly in tears from my 5 hour interrogation and hearing I wasn't getting this job and sheís laughing and carrying on making small talk with me.
I honestly donít know how I could have failed. I live a simplistic life, donít drink or do drugs, I go to church, never been in trouble, graduated Valedictorian and had amazing references including the Mayor and now because of this polygraph I think my chances are over.
What do you think? Did I truly fail or was this just some trick to see if I would crack? The background investigator did ask one of my references ďwhat it would take to make me crack.Ē Thought that was weird.
O and one more thing, near to the end she said because I was such a liar she feared I was a threat to national security and I must be trying to infiltrate their agency for malicious reasons. Absolute craziness.
What do you all think?


Depends on which agency this was for. If it was the CIA or NRO, then you might have been an "Inconclusive." They do the post-interview interrogation on almost everyone. As long as you didn't make any admissions that weren't already disclosed on your security forms, nor gave a suspicious/deceptive impression, then you might be alright. Because you mention that they started your background investigation, it makes me think that your poly might have been inconclusive. As far as I know, the CIA/NRO and DIA do not start your background investigation if you failed the poly. However, I will say that your poly results can still come back to haunt you once you're in adjudication, in the form of a suitability denial. If your background checks out for the most part and they still don't feel right about you (for whatever strange reason), then they will likely just say you were found unsuitable for access to classified material due to information obtained from your polygraph. The suitability denial allows them to cut you without having to formally deny you clearance, which is both a good and bad thing: You can still obtain employment with most other government orgs that require a clearance; yet, as far as I know, you will likely not be able to work for the CIA or NRO in the future.

This information is just what I've pieced together myself and/or been told by more knowledgeable sources. So, if I am wrong on any account, then someone with greater knowledge than I, please chime in and correct me.

Would be great to hear what happens to you, good or bad. Good luck!
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box John M.
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Re: Failed 2nd Poly? Any Advice?
Reply #2 - May 13th, 2018 at 6:54pm
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Your encounter with the polygraph process is not unique. Five hours on three questions is absurd. This is their modus operandi and unfortunately, people like you and I can easily fall victim to the fraud and abuse.

Itís all too common in this situation for overly self-conscious people to ďfailĒ under duress. Maybe she saw something, but more likely it was nothing and she was just pulling your chain. Emotions such as fear, anger, panic, anguish, humiliation, shock, worry, frustration, resentment, disgust, embarrassment, shame, annoyance, anticipation, distrust Ė all produce physiologic reactions Ė which are unique for each individual. They illegitimately classify any physiologic reaction you have as ďdeceptionĒ.  To be clear, there is no specific physiologic reaction that can be accurately identified and classified as a ďlieĒ, and any attempts to do so is deceitful.

This part is very important Ė for some people, once the polygrapher tells you that you didnít ďpassĒ on a certain question, itís almost impossible to not, not react again when they ask you the question again (and again and again and again).  Youíll never be able to get back to the place you were before they questioned your honesty. The butterflies will get to you.  Iíve explained it many times like when youíre driving down the road and flashing lights suddenly appear in your rear view mirror.  You know you havenít done anything wrong, but you still get the butterflies.  Itís an uncontrollable physiologic reaction.  Itís not what youíre thinking about the question that causes your reaction, itís what youíre thinking about your reactions will be to the question, that cause your reactions.

30 years ago, Congress passed the Employee Polygraph Protection Act because the theory behind the polygraph is based on faulty logic and assumptions.  Incredibly, the government was granted an exemption to the Law, and is permitted to continue administering the polygraph.  The worst part is that they know itís not accurate. Theyíve even stated that itís okay to ďcrack a few eggs to make an omelet.Ē  Itís proven to be biased against honest, self-conscious people like you and I, and the truly bad people can easily pass it, simply by controlling their emotions. (See Ed Snowden, Aldrich Ames, etc.)

Iím sorry you had to suffer though this highly abusive process, just know that you are not alone. From what you said that she told you, I expect she chalked you up as another potential insider threat Ė thus proving her worth and keeping her job. Probably helped her to meet quota too.

In the end, youíre better off not working for that agency anyway. They now conduct periodic polygraph screenings of existing employees Ė you would have had to risk losing your career, your reputation and your sanity, every five years.

  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.† No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."† ~ DODI 5210.91.
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Re: Failed 2nd Poly? Any Advice?
Reply #3 - May 13th, 2018 at 7:11pm
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you might have been an "Inconclusive."

Three of my five polygraph exams resulted in "No Opinion" being rendered. They said, "analysis of the data collected revealed the subject's physiological data lacked sufficient criteria on which to base a decision."

Seriously.

There's no such thing as a post-interview interrogation. It ain't over until it's over. They interrogate you then hook you right back up again. Sometimes they leave you hooked up while they do the interrogations. It's all an effort like Rayburn12 said - to break you.† They spent hours and hours interrogating me, then questioned me while I was hooked to the machine.† More and more interrogations followed by asking the same questions over and over.† If the stupid thing worked as they claim it does, why do they need to ask the same questions hundreds of times - and still come away with "No Opinion"?

  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.† No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."† ~ DODI 5210.91.
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