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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Looking for exam transcripts (Read 4925 times)
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #75 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:37am
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pailryder wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 6:40pm:
Arkhangelsk

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the absence of complaints on this forum about EPPA polygraph examinations.
                   


I have given this some thought but a cogent response evades me.
  
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #76 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:56am
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John M. wrote on Aug 30th, 2017 at 9:16pm:
There should be no fence to sit on.  There is only one way to look at the use and abuse of the polygraph and it must be put to a stop immediately.  I will not "chill out" until it is.  As truth is my sword.


Well, one has to admire your grit. I do wonder if your passion is a healthy response that provides both vindication for your perceived wrongs as well as helping others avoid the same turmoil, or if it is an all consuming obsession that will leave you even more tormented in the long run.

There is a fence to sit on and observe from. Complete polarization yields no ground. The abolition of polygraph screening in the hiring process, while a noble goal, is never going to happened IMHO. Most in the government are aware of its controversy, but until some other method of credibility assessment emerges on the horizon, none are going to advocate the abolition of the current process. The casualties of this process are perhaps lamented, but individuals are expendable.

Pragmatically, your only hope is to apply enough diplomatic pressure to foster some changes to the process. But, even that would be hard won.

But who am I to discourage you? More power to you.
  
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #77 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:56am
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Thank you for your reply Archangelsk.  Anyone else care to venture an opinion?
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Dan Mangan
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #78 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 12:33pm
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pailryder wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 10:56am:
Thank you for your reply Archangelsk.  Anyone else care to venture an opinion?


There's no mystery here.

1. EPPA exams are, by law, inconsequential. Thus, there's nothing to bitch about.

2. "Test" subjects under EPPA get the questions in writing well in advance. Question formulation in polygraph "testing" is notoriously shoddy. I suspect this causes a significant number of EPPA candidates -- be they guilty or innocent -- to opt out of the "test."

3. EPPA "test" subjects are highly likely to research and/or get opinions about polygraph "testing," thereby learning the "test" is pseudoscience run amok. Such enlightenment dispels concern about the outcome.

4. EPPA exams probably account for less than one tenth of one percent (0.001) of all polygraph "tests" administered nationwide.

The lack of EPPA related complaints on this board has nothing to do with purported accuracy of polygraph "testing." The relative silence here is a function of sample size and absence of consequence, coupled with a lack of concern (worry) about the outcome.

Finally, those EPPA test takers who do have a grievance may not even know about this board.
  

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
Full Member, American Polygraph Association
Certified PCSOT Examiner

Website: www.polygraphman.com
Email: polygraphexam@gmail.com
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Doug Williams
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #79 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:15pm
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Doug Williams wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 9:16pm:
quickfix wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 8:18pm:
Doug Williams wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:41pm:
Care to enlighten us Quickfix?  Are you evil or just plain stupid?

Let's see:  I never committed a felony;  you did.  I was never incarcerated, you were.  I never peddled garbage on Amazon.com for 99 cents;  you did.

Sounds to me like you're the stupid one.


OK, as Forrest Gump once said, "Stupid is as stupid does". So let me ask you again Quickfix, do you really honestly believe the polygraph is accurate and reliable as a lie detector? If so, you are stupid! If, on the other hand, you know damn well the polygraph is not accurate or reliable as a lie detector and you continue to claim that it is - then you are evil. So which is it? Are you stupid or are you evil?


Well Quickfix, we're all still waiting on your response. Which is it? Are you stupid or are you evil -  it's one or the other so please enlighten us as to which one it is.
  

It is time to put a stop to this government sponsored sadism perpetrated by those who use this insidious Orwellian instrument of torture called the 'lie detector'!  Education is the most effective weapon I have to finally put a stop to the abusive practice of polygraph 'testing'.  Help me by educating yourself and others.  My book FROM COP TO CRUSADER: THE STORY OF MY FIGHT AGAINST THE DANGROUS MYTH OF "LIE DETECTION" is available on Amazon in e-book or paperback - please get this book and send it to as many people as you can - it literally destroys the myth of "lie detection"!  Doug Williams
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #80 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:50pm
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Pailryder,
Also, it appears that posts from those in sex offender treatment have dried up. Perhaps the authorities and treatment providers have made accessing this website taboo and a possible violation of the rules.
  
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John M.
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #81 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:11pm
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Dan Mangan wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 12:33pm:
Such enlightenment dispels concern about the outcome.

In my case, such enlightenment brought on an uncontrollable concern for the outcome. 

I'd read, I understood, and I believed that the "test" was indeed flawed, and that there was a thing called a FALSE POSITIVE.  I was a cracked egg in the omelet and I couldn't do anything about it.

The most important thing I learned is that the fear of failure causes a reaction that mimics the one that is interpreted as a lie.

Once the interrogator said that I was lying, there was no going back.  The bombardment of horrible accusations brought on my fight, or flight reaction - every time.  I was scared shitless that I wouldn't not react when they asked the goddamn question. I knew his sensors were registering my fear to failing the question - but what could I do? I would even ask myself the question while driving to work - to practice trying to remain calm - and couldn't do it.  It wasn't the meaning of the question that bothered me, it was the question itself.  I must have "failed" (reacted) to the question over 1000 times.

It starts like little butterflies, the kind like you get when you see flashing red and blue lights in your rear view mirror.  You haven't done anything wrong, but you still get the butterflies.  When you are abused like this five times in three years, those butterflies turn to bats and you suffer a nervous breakdown.  The last time I was polygraphed, in August 2015, at DIA Headquarters, I was seen immediately afterwards by two DIA psychologists - Drs. Jill Tucillo and Richard Ault (tele # 703-735-1735/1736).

I was granted a disability retirement by DIA in September, 2015, for psychological reasons.  I'm in the appeals process for workers' compensation and I have also filed an appeal to EEO for disparate treatment and failure to provide reasonable accommodations.

So far, the Agency has been able to sidestep everyone, even the DOD OIG, by lying.  Ironic, isn't it?  They have also testified to federal judges that they are following all applicable rules and regulations.  I have it on record.

I still get those intense butterflies, but thanks to therapy and anxiolytic medication I can now properly function (my wife will probably tell you otherwise).
  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #82 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 7:57pm
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John, you reacted that way because your mandated polygraph "tests" had consequences.

EPPA polygraphs do not have consequences.

They are a feel-good farce.
  

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
Full Member, American Polygraph Association
Certified PCSOT Examiner

Website: www.polygraphman.com
Email: polygraphexam@gmail.com
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John M.
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #83 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 8:52pm
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Thanks Dan.  You are always spot on with your comments.  I was mandated to five polygraphs in three years. I keyed in on your comment about the "test" subject's enlightenment and applied it to all polygraph tests.

It shouldn't matter what kind of polygraph it is, it should not, by itself, result in adverse consequences.

The "feel good farce" is what we need to expose.  HR 2213 and S1560 are due to debated soon.  I dream of testifying before congress.
  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #84 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:14pm
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quickfix wrote on Aug 31st, 2017 at 7:12pm:
And I was never a Navy Seal, Green Beret, or Delta Force


You're exactly right. I seriously doubt very much that you would have ever served in any capacity in which your personal physical well-being wasn't assured. Roll Eyes
  

"When polygraphs are outlawed, only outlaws will use polygraphs"
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #85 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:17pm
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Doug Williams wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:15pm:
Doug Williams wrote yesterday at 9:16pm:
quickfix wrote yesterday at 8:18pm:
Doug Williams wrote yesterday at 7:41pm:
Care to enlighten us Quickfix?  Are you evil or just plain stupid?
Let's see:  I never committed a felony;  you did.  I was never incarcerated, you were.  I never peddled garbage on Amazon.com for 99 cents;  you did.

Sounds to me like you're the stupid one.

OK, as Forrest Gump once said, "Stupid is as stupid does". So let me ask you again Quickfix, do you really honestly believe the polygraph is accurate and reliable as a lie detector? If so, you are stupid! If, on the other hand, you know damn well the polygraph is not accurate or reliable as a lie detector and you continue to claim that it is - then you are evil. So which is it? Are you stupid or are you evil?




Very likely a combination of the two, plus a bully and coward as well.
  

"When polygraphs are outlawed, only outlaws will use polygraphs"
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #86 - Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:39pm
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skingalvanics wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:17pm:
Doug Williams wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:15pm:
Doug Williams wrote yesterday at 9:16pm:
quickfix wrote yesterday at 8:18pm:
Doug Williams wrote yesterday at 7:41pm:

OK, as Forrest Gump once said, "Stupid is as stupid does". So let me ask you again Quickfix, do you really honestly believe the polygraph is accurate and reliable as a lie detector? If so, you are stupid! If, on the other hand, you know damn well the polygraph is not accurate or reliable as a lie detector and you continue to claim that it is - then you are evil. So which is it? Are you stupid or are you evil?




Very likely a combination of the two, plus a bully and coward as well.


Skingalvanics - you have nailed it.  Quickfix is exactly that - a stupid, evil, cowardly bully.
  

It is time to put a stop to this government sponsored sadism perpetrated by those who use this insidious Orwellian instrument of torture called the 'lie detector'!  Education is the most effective weapon I have to finally put a stop to the abusive practice of polygraph 'testing'.  Help me by educating yourself and others.  My book FROM COP TO CRUSADER: THE STORY OF MY FIGHT AGAINST THE DANGROUS MYTH OF "LIE DETECTION" is available on Amazon in e-book or paperback - please get this book and send it to as many people as you can - it literally destroys the myth of "lie detection"!  Doug Williams
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Aunty Agony
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #87 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 5:11am
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Doug Williams wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:39pm:
skingalvanics wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 9:17pm:
Doug Williams wrote on Sep 1st, 2017 at 4:15pm:
Doug Williams wrote yesterday at 9:16pm:
quickfix wrote yesterday at 8:18pm:
Doug Williams wrote yesterday at 7:41pm:
OK, as Forrest Gump once said, "Stupid is as stupid does". So let me ask you again Quickfix, do you really honestly believe the polygraph is accurate and reliable as a lie detector? If so, you are stupid! If, on the other hand, you know damn well the polygraph is not accurate or reliable as a lie detector and you continue to claim that it is - then you are evil. So which is it? Are you stupid or are you evil?

Very likely a combination of the two, plus a bully and coward as well.

Skingalvanics - you have nailed it.  Quickfix is exactly that - a stupid, evil, cowardly bully.

Aunty cannot help feeling that all this piling on seems a little unfair, as quickfix may not be in a position to defend himself. He probably doesn't want to risk posting here until he reads up on the case law surrounding adverse actions taken against federal employees for promulgating government policies in excess of their authority to do so.

Get your own lawyer, quickfix. At this point you cannot rely on advice from your bureau's general counsel; he's there to protect the government's interests, not yours.
  
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #88 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 2:34pm
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Aunty Agony wrote on Sep 2nd, 2017 at 5:11am:
Aunty cannot help feeling that all this piling on seems a little unfair, as quickfix may not be in a position to defend himself. He probably doesn't want to risk posting here until he reads up on the case law surrounding adverse actions taken against federal employees for promulgating government policies in excess of their authority to do so.

Get your own lawyer, quickfix. At this point you cannot rely on advice from your bureau's general counsel; he's there to protect the government's interests, not yours.

Don't you worry about me.  I have the same freedom to post whenever I like and will continue to do so.  You are here for my amusement, so continue to entertain me.
  
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #89 - Sep 2nd, 2017 at 4:27pm
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Aunty is not only intelligent, she has a good heart.
  
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