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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Looking for exam transcripts (Read 6847 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Wandersmann
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #15 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 3:31am
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Andy Balmer wrote on Aug 24th, 2017 at 10:50am:
Thank you for the responses. Please accept an apology for the slow response.


Thank you Andy and please accept my apology for the curt response earlier. I asked you about more specific information about transcripts because I wanted to make certain I understood you. Speaking as a former law enforcement officer who was both a victim of the polygraph, and one who witnessed many other people become apparent victims of this witchcraft, I believe there are no transcripts. I can not speak as an absolute authority because I was never a polygraph examiner nor was I a security official affiliated with the polygraph.

Results of Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests which yielded polygraph examiner reports and findings in my case revealed that the polygraph report was inaccurate and contained lies and omissions. Based on the results of my FOIA information I believe that the polygraph examiner is unimpeded from writing a totally subjective, inaccurate summary to justify the conclusions in the chart interpretation. A polygraph examiner is sanctioned to write a false official statement with no oversight whatsoever. These people function with the same impunity as the repressive regimes of the Soviet Union.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Andy Balmer
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #16 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 9:26am
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Hello Dan,

Thanks for this. Yes, I have written about PCSOT and have followed Prof. Grubin's work on the subject. I have, on the few occasions I've had the chance, advised police and government officials not to put faith in the test, but it tends to fall on deaf ears. You're quite right about money. Once I have completed my current book, I will likely be in touch - perhaps you would be willing to be interviewed about your experiences?

Best wishes,
Andy
  
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #17 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 5:24pm
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Hey Wandersmann,

I do have some transcripts already, but you're right that in most exams they are not produced, and in many audio/video is not recorded. I agree there is a deception inherent to the implementation of polygraph exams. In the book I explore how uncertainties in the science and in law are used by examiners to further manipulate subjects, with sometimes tragic consequences. The responses I've had from my post so far suggest a possible article to write after the book: I might conduct interviews with current and former examiners and with people who have taken a test. Would make for an interesting paper and help showcase some of the experiences people have had with the machine.

Cheers,
Andy
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box pailryder
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #18 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 7:18pm
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Andy

Should we expect a chapter exploring how examiners use the uncertainties of law and science to manipulate subjects into truthful confession with wonderful results?
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box John M.
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #19 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 7:56pm
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Hey Andy

Can we expect a chapter exploring the individual rights violations when subjects "fail" the "test" and are unjustly judged to be untrustworthy based solely on those "results"?

Also, can we expect a chapter explaining that subjecting someone to the polygraph "test" five times in three years is abusive?

  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation. No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results." ~ DODI 5210.91.
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Doug Williams
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #20 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 9:30pm
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pailryder wrote on Aug 26th, 2017 at 7:18pm:
Andy

Should we expect a chapter exploring how examiners use the uncertainties of law and science to manipulate subjects into truthful confession with wonderful results?


Yes Pail - I feel certain that Andy will agree with you that the polygraph is an excellent prop for an interrogator. In fact it is the best psychological billy club ever devised to coerce a person into giving a confession. But I'm also certain that he will come to know that the polygraph is absolutely worthless as a "lie detector"!
  

It is time to put a stop to this government sponsored sadism perpetrated by those who use this insidious Orwellian instrument of torture called the 'lie detector'! Education is the most effective weapon I have to finally put a stop to the abusive practice of polygraph 'testing'. Help me by educating yourself and others. My book FROM COP TO CRUSADER: THE STORY OF MY FIGHT AGAINST THE DANGROUS MYTH OF "LIE DETECTION" is available on Amazon in e-book or paperback - please get this book and send it to as many people as you can - it literally destroys the myth of "lie detection"! Doug Williams
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Wandersmann
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #21 - Aug 27th, 2017 at 2:13am
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pailryder wrote on Aug 26th, 2017 at 7:18pm:
Should we expect a chapter exploring how examiners use the uncertainties of law and science to manipulate subjects into truthful confession with wonderful results?


Sure Pailryder, let's do it.  If you don't mind occasionally ruining innocent people's lives, let's go for it.  If we can't solve a bank robbery but have 5 suspects, if we just put all 5 in prison without separating the innocent and the guilty we would undoubtedly punish the real culrpit.  Angry
  
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #22 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 4:49pm
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Wandersmann

You have stumbled onto the very reason EPPA testing is so valuable to private businesses and employees.  First, keep in mind the very different nature of EPPA testing from the compelled governmental testing you find so offensive.  Business testing is voluntary, even if the employee fails, protections are in place so that no adverse job action can result from the failure. 

Change your bank robbery to an inside job.  An unknown employee at your branch has stolen a large amount of cash.  Now you and the other four employees are under suspicion and the chance of everyone being fired if the thief cannot be identified is very real.   Truthful employees know it is the thief that has placed their job at risk and it is in their best interest that the thief be found out.   Thousands of polygraphs have been conducted in compliance with this federal labor law since it passed in 1988, some thirty years ago. 
   
With that in mind Wandersmann, answer me this, in all that time, how many posts have you read on this site where the poster complains about an EPPA compliant polygraph experience?
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #23 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 5:00pm
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[quote author=557E64764E46787D7D78707C62110 link=1502890620/20#20 date=1503783001][quote author=6170787D6368757463110 link=1502890620/18#18 date=1503775096]Andy

In fact it is the best psychological billy club ever devised to coerce a person into giving a confession.

I was wondering, Doug, how your confession was obtained?
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Doug Williams
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #24 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 5:10pm
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pailryder wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 5:00pm:
[quote author=557E64764E46787D7D78707C62110 link=1502890620/20#20 date=1503783001][quote author=6170787D6368757463110 link=1502890620/18#18 date=1503775096]Andy

In fact it is the best psychological billy club ever devised to coerce a person into giving a confession.

I was wondering, Doug, how your confession was obtained?


Pail-O-Shit - it is very confusing when you put a question mark afer a declarative sentence, so I'm wondering what it is you are saying/asking. Are you asking how I obtained confessions when I was a professional polygraph interrogator?
  

It is time to put a stop to this government sponsored sadism perpetrated by those who use this insidious Orwellian instrument of torture called the 'lie detector'! Education is the most effective weapon I have to finally put a stop to the abusive practice of polygraph 'testing'. Help me by educating yourself and others. My book FROM COP TO CRUSADER: THE STORY OF MY FIGHT AGAINST THE DANGROUS MYTH OF "LIE DETECTION" is available on Amazon in e-book or paperback - please get this book and send it to as many people as you can - it literally destroys the myth of "lie detection"! Doug Williams
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #25 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 5:22pm
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Were you coerced?
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Doug Williams
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #26 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 5:42pm
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pailryder wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 5:22pm:
Were you coerced?

  Coerced  entrapped railroaded betrayed... any or all of the above.  But there is one thing about my conviction that is of immense value in my crusade against your evil industry. And that is that if I can teach a person how to control every tracing on the polygraph chart and "beat" the  polygraph test at will - something you have always claimed was impossible for me to do that is proof that the polygraph exam is absolutely worthless as a lie detector. And my conviction at the hands of the rogue polygraph examiners  from the CBP/IA is proof that the polygraph industry knows this is true.   Therefore, my conviction is proof that the whole polygraph industry is nothing but a fraud and that you are all very well aware of the fact that you are perpetrating a fraud by claiming to be able to detect deception with your little box.
  

It is time to put a stop to this government sponsored sadism perpetrated by those who use this insidious Orwellian instrument of torture called the 'lie detector'! Education is the most effective weapon I have to finally put a stop to the abusive practice of polygraph 'testing'. Help me by educating yourself and others. My book FROM COP TO CRUSADER: THE STORY OF MY FIGHT AGAINST THE DANGROUS MYTH OF "LIE DETECTION" is available on Amazon in e-book or paperback - please get this book and send it to as many people as you can - it literally destroys the myth of "lie detection"! Doug Williams
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #27 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 5:57pm
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pailryder wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 4:49pm:
Business testing is voluntary, even if the employee fails, protections are in place so that no adverse job action can result from the failure.

So why even administer it?
  
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #28 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 6:38pm
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To protect the truthful employee's jobs by removing them from the suspect pool.
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Doug Williams
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Re: Looking for exam transcripts
Reply #29 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 6:41pm
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pailryder wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 6:38pm:
To protect the truthful employees jobs by removing them from the suspect pool.

Pail-O-Shit -  that is pure unadulterated bullshit and you know it. You thugs administer polygraph tests for one reason and one reason only to unjustly enrich yourselves.
  

It is time to put a stop to this government sponsored sadism perpetrated by those who use this insidious Orwellian instrument of torture called the 'lie detector'! Education is the most effective weapon I have to finally put a stop to the abusive practice of polygraph 'testing'. Help me by educating yourself and others. My book FROM COP TO CRUSADER: THE STORY OF MY FIGHT AGAINST THE DANGROUS MYTH OF "LIE DETECTION" is available on Amazon in e-book or paperback - please get this book and send it to as many people as you can - it literally destroys the myth of "lie detection"! Doug Williams
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