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AntiPolygraph.org Message Board › Polygraph and CVSA Forums › Share Your Polygraph or CVSA Experience › Border Patrol Unfavorable Poly Result

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Border Patrol Unfavorable Poly Result (Read 18394 times)

Calbraz New User Offline Posts: 3 Joined: Oct 19^th, 2016	Border Patrol Unfavorable Poly Result Apr 27^th, 2017 at 10:21am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	So I am now one of the 60%. I took the Border Patrol polygraph in October 2016 twice. The first time the examiner said I was hiding something but he wouldn't tell me what I was showing a response on. I took the poly again the next week. This time a different examiner said I was lying on the drug cultivation, selling, transporting, etc question. I have never even done any type of drugs in my life. He kept grilling me, saying I was being stubborn and that if I just confess, I'll be hired. I kept to my answer and told the truth. He said that in his opinion I failed the polygraph. Fast forward to two weeks ago and I finally get an email. It says I have an unfavorable polygraph result and I am being withdrawn from the hiring process. And it says I cannot appeal. Wow. I was beyond pissed. I am planning on filing a FOIA request to see what it says. My question is: can I appeal in any way? Could I go to a judge to ask him to order BP to throw out the results or does it not work that way? Can speaking to a judge help in any way? I don't have enough money to sue. I am also in the hiring process a police department. I have taken 3 polygraphs with local law enforcement agencies and passed all three. BP was the first one I failed. How do I bring up the failed BP polygraph when this department I'm in the hiring process for asks me about my previous polygraphs? I am worried they will act all super concerned that I failed a polygraph. How do I bring up that BP fails a unusual number of people and that I was actually telling the truth?


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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: Border Patrol Unfavorable Poly Result Reply #1 - Apr 27^th, 2017 at 2:30pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Calbraz wrote on Apr 27^th, 2017 at 10:21am: My question is: can I appeal in any way? Could I go to a judge to ask him to order BP to throw out the results or does it not work that way? Can speaking to a judge help in any way? I don't have enough money to sue. At the very best, you would get a moral victory and some sympathy, but you will permanently block your path forward. I suggest you just not say anything unless asked, and even then, just say you "have no explanation for that." You must also realize, that you did not "fail" a polygraph because he saw reactions to a particular question. This is an interrogation, not polygraphy. The passing or failing of a polygraph is based on a holistic approach. One cannot "fail" a portion of it. Although some scoring criteria require positive scores for each spot in order to pass, this cannot be extrapolated to assuming you were deceptive on a certain question. Those examiners who say you "failed" a particular question simply because you responded to it are engaging in a practice not supported by research. In all fairness to the examiner, I do not know what transpired; I have only your side of it. If he was concerned about your involvement in drugs for some reason (reactions to questions, gut instinct or additional background data etc.), then he should have broken the drug issue out into a FZCT.
	« Last Edit: Apr 27^th, 2017 at 3:37pm by Ex Member »

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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Border Patrol Unfavorable Poly Result Reply #2 - Apr 27^th, 2017 at 5:12pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Calbraz wrote on Apr 27^th, 2017 at 10:21am: I am planning on filing a FOIA request to see what it says. My question is: can I appeal in any way? Could I go to a judge to ask him to order BP to throw out the results or does it not work that way? Can speaking to a judge help in any way? I don't have enough money to sue. There is no appeal process. You cannot ask a judge to order CBP to throw out the results without filing a lawsuit, which in turn would be a long, expensive, and uncertain process. Quote: I am also in the hiring process a police department. I have taken 3 polygraphs with local law enforcement agencies and passed all three. BP was the first one I failed. How do I bring up the failed BP polygraph when this department I'm in the hiring process for asks me about my previous polygraphs? I am worried they will act all super concerned that I failed a polygraph. How do I bring up that BP fails a unusual number of people and that I was actually telling the truth? If I were in your shoes, I would not bring up the topic of the CBP polygraph unless asked. And if asked, I would explain that I told the truth and was falsely accused of deception.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Border Patrol Unfavorable Poly Result Reply #3 - Apr 27^th, 2017 at 5:20pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Ex Member wrote on Apr 27^th, 2017 at 2:30pm: Calbraz wrote on Apr 27^th, 2017 at 10:21am: My question is: can I appeal in any way? Could I go to a judge to ask him to order BP to throw out the results or does it not work that way? Can speaking to a judge help in any way? I don't have enough money to sue. At the very best, you would get a moral victory and some sympathy, but you will permanently block your path forward. I suggest you just not say anything unless asked, and even then, just say you "have no explanation for that." I concur. Quote: You must also realize, that you did not "fail" a polygraph because he saw reactions to a particular question. You're wrong about that. Individual questions are indeed scored. The "fail one, fail all" policy in polygraphy doesn't alter that. Quote: This is an interrogation, not polygraphy. Polygraphy has everything to do with interrogation. I'm not sure what you mean here. Quote: The passing or failing of a polygraph is based on a holistic approach. One cannot "fail" a portion of it. Although some scoring criteria require positive scores for each spot in order to pass, this cannot be extrapolated to assuming you were deceptive on a certain question. Those examiners who say you "failed" a particular question simply because you responded to it are engaging in a practice not supported by research. None of polygraphic lie detection is supported by research. It's all a pseudoscientific fraud. Polygraphers typically interrogate on the relevant question(s) to which the examinee shows the strongest physiological reactions. That's consistent with their training. Quote: In all fairness to the examiner, I do not know what transpired; I have only your side of it. If he was concerned about your involvement in drugs for some reason (reactions to questions, gut instinct or additional background data etc.), then he should have broken the drug issue out into a FZCT. Actually, no. There is no policy that requires CBP polygraphers to conduct a so-called "breakdown test." They can just flunk the applicant on the LEPET, and that's precisely what they do.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: Border Patrol Unfavorable Poly Result Reply #4 - Apr 27^th, 2017 at 6:05pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	George W. Maschke wrote on Apr 27^th, 2017 at 5:20pm: You're wrong about that. Individual questions are indeed scored. The "fail one, fail all" policy in polygraphy doesn't alter that. Maybe I did not make the nuance clear. Let me try again. Regardless of what any particular examiner says or does, it has no bearing on the fact that statistical analyses can only score the exam in its entirety. Statistically, individual questions cannot be called deceptive in themselves.


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Border Patrol Unfavorable Poly Result Reply #5 - Apr 28^th, 2017 at 2:45pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Archangelsk, I recognize the point your making, and you are correct. But for the examinee, it is of little consequence.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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xenonman God Member Banned Offline May sarin, ricin, and variola major befall Langley Posts: 680 Location: WI USA Joined: Dec 14^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Border Patrol Unfavorable Poly Result Reply #6 - Apr 28^th, 2017 at 3:02pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	George W. Maschke wrote on Apr 27^th, 2017 at 5:20pm: None of polygraphic lie detection is supported by research. It's all a pseudoscientific fraud. Polygraphers typically interrogate on the relevant question(s) to which the examinee shows the strongest physiological reactions. That's consistent with their training. One no more "fails" a polygraph "exam", than an alchemist fails to find a way to make gold, or the Polish Inquisition fails to find covert Lutherans!

	What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac? A great beginning! The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
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