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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Arrested NSA Contractor Hal Martin "Passed at Least One Polygraph Test" (Read 18589 times)
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Re: Arrested NSA Contractor Hal Martin "Passed at Least One Polygraph Test"
Reply #15 - Oct 9th, 2016 at 4:15pm
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The title of the article in the link above that quickfix posted is misleading. It says down the page that Doug pled guilty to mail fraud and witness tampering. There is no crime against teaching how to beat the poly. Thats good news. I'm going to start telling people how to beat it too.  Put polygraphers out of business, like that asshole quickfix.
  
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Re: Arrested NSA Contractor Hal Martin "Passed at Least One Polygraph Test"
Reply #16 - Oct 9th, 2016 at 7:07pm
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quickfix wrote on Oct 9th, 2016 at 3:58pm:

Well, I wouldn't know from reading that post.  It's just a mendacious announcement from the Department of Justice describing some of Doug's actions and ineptly trying to pretend that they are all crimes.

If you don't know the answer, its all right to just say you don't know the answer.

To what crime did Doug Williams plead guilty?
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Arrested NSA Contractor Hal Martin "Passed at Least One Polygraph Test"
Reply #17 - Oct 10th, 2016 at 5:45am
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Quickfix,

How do you suppose Hal Martin, who reportedly had been collecting classified documents at his home since 1999, was able to pass a polygraph screening test?
  

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Re: Arrested NSA Contractor Hal Martin "Passed at Least One Polygraph Test"
Reply #18 - Oct 10th, 2016 at 11:50am
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George, the operative word here is "suppose";  do you know for sure it was 1999?  Do you know for sure Martin took a polygraph with NSA (or anyone else), and if so, was it after he began rat-holing classified material or before?  Polygraph cannot predict future actions, only verify actions taken in the past.  Media reports are not always initially complete or accurate.

On another topic, perhaps you should explain to Aunty Agony that Mail Fraud and Witness Tampering are the federal crimes that Doug Williams pleaded guilty to, since he/she can't seem to/doesn't want to read the DOJ press release I posted above.
  
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Re: Arrested NSA Contractor Hal Martin "Passed at Least One Polygraph Test"
Reply #19 - Oct 10th, 2016 at 12:15pm
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Can someone tell me what exactly did Doug do that constitutes witness tampering and mail fraud?  What do those chargea have to do with teaching people how to pass a poly?  It seems that if teaching how to pass a poly was a crime, Doug would have been charged with that.  Hence, teaching poly beating is not a crime, correct?
  
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Re: Arrested NSA Contractor Hal Martin "Passed at Least One Polygraph Test"
Reply #20 - Oct 10th, 2016 at 12:37pm
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The New York Times, citing unnamed government officials reports that Martin had been taking home classified materials since the late 1990s. So 1999 would be the no-later-than date for his mishandling of classified information:

Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/07/us/politics/nsa-suspect-is-a-hoarder-but-a-lea...

...

Harold T. Martin III, the contractor arrested by the F.B.I. on Aug. 27, brazenly violated basic security rules, taking home a staggering quantity of highly classified material. He had been doing this undetected, agency officials were chagrined to learn, since the late 1990s....


According to the same article, Martin began working for NSA contractor Booz Allen Hamilton in 2009. The Daily Beast reports that Martin worked for the NSA's highly compartmented Tailored Access Operations unit. It's a safe bet that Martin was required to pass a polygraph examination in connection with his NSA contract work, and this would be after having hoarded classified documents for a decade.
« Last Edit: Jan 9th, 2019 at 8:39pm by George W. Maschke »  

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Re: Arrested NSA Contractor Hal Martin "Passed at Least One Polygraph Test"
Reply #21 - Oct 10th, 2016 at 2:15pm
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Aunty Agony wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 7:00pm:
Doug Williams was not sent to prison for teaching how to beat the poly

quickfix wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 7:30pm:
Of course he was.  He pled guilty.

Aunty Agony wrote on Oct 8th, 2016 at 9:12pm:
To what crime did Doug Williams plead guilty?

quickfix wrote on Oct 10th, 2016 at 11:50am:
Mail Fraud and Witness Tampering are the federal crimes that Doug Williams pleaded guilty to

So you agree with me, then.

As I said, Aunty just likes to keep the public record accurate.
  
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Re: Arrested NSA Contractor Hal Martin "Passed at Least One Polygraph Test"
Reply #22 - Oct 10th, 2016 at 3:36pm
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Quote:
It seems that if teaching how to pass a poly was a crime, Doug would have been charged with that.  Hence, teaching poly beating is not a crime, correct?

Correct.

Only the indictment itself is a true bill of the facts.  All other announcements, press releases, and blog postings from John Schwartz (CBP), Fred Ball (CBP), Leslie Caldwell (DOJ), Brian Kidd (DOJ), James Finch (FBI), or quickfix are steaming piles of digested grass.
  
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Re: Arrested NSA Contractor Hal Martin "Passed at Least One Polygraph Test"
Reply #23 - Oct 10th, 2016 at 3:54pm
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I cannot help wondering how much overlap there is between the security violations of Harold T. Martin III and the similar security violations of Hilary R. Clinton.

As far as we know, neither miscreant harbored treasonous intent nor expected to profit from the activity; and in neither case is the breach known to have caused significant harm to the United States nor given aid or comfort to its enemies.
  
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Re: Arrested NSA Contractor Hal Martin "Passed at Least One Polygraph Test"
Reply #24 - Oct 10th, 2016 at 3:55pm
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Aunty Agony wrote on Oct 10th, 2016 at 3:36pm:
All other announcements, press releases, and blog postings from John Schwartz (CBP), Fred Ball (CBP), Leslie Caldwell (DOJ), Brian Kidd (DOJ), James Finch (FBI), or quickfix are steaming piles of digested grass.


And that's what convicted felon Dougy will have slopped on to his tray for dinner in the prison chow hall!
  
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Re: Arrested NSA Contractor Hal Martin "Passed at Least One Polygraph Test"
Reply #25 - Oct 11th, 2016 at 4:53am
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George W. Maschke wrote on Oct 10th, 2016 at 5:45am:
How do you suppose Hal Martin, who reportedly had been collecting classified documents at his home since 1999, was able to pass a polygraph screening test?

All references to Hal Martin describe him as independently curious, and deeply interested in detecting pathologies such as PTSD via direct histological examination of a patient's behavior -- the same techniques used by military and police interrogators, and so crudely mechanized by the polygraph.

Martin's ex-wife Elizabeth is a formidible person who served in military and civilian police, and in 1996 became a highly trained and thoroughly certified polygrapher.  I can't find when they were divorced but she evidently had at least some contact with him until 1999.

This means he had roughly three years to pump her about how the polygraph works.

If they were on speaking terms, and as she had no reason to suspect he might someday so spectacularly shatter government security protocols, she probably shared so much information with him that he could have written another How To Sting The Polygraph or even The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.

So -- he had no need for his own Doug Williams or Dan Mangan -- just pillow talk.
  
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Re: Arrested NSA Contractor Hal Martin "Passed at Least One Polygraph Test"
Reply #26 - Oct 11th, 2016 at 5:18am
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Aunty,

The same thought occurred to me, and I suspect Elizabeth Martin has already been questioned regarding what information about polygraphy she imparted to her ex-husband, Hal.
  

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Re: Arrested NSA Contractor Hal Martin "Passed at Least One Polygraph Test"
Reply #27 - Oct 11th, 2016 at 9:39am
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Aunty Agony wrote on Oct 11th, 2016 at 4:53am:
So -- he had no need for his own Doug Williams or Dan Mangan -- just pillow talk


Aunty, let me be clear: I do not teach, coach or provide advice on countermeasures.

As a full member of the American Polygraph Association, I serve primarily as a polygraph consultant and examiner who strives to preemptively reduce victimization by educating consumers -- both primary and secondary -- about the risks, realities and limitations of the polygraph "test."

I continue to administer polygraph "tests" in select cases, and conduct QA reviews of polygraph exams.

Perhaps you had me confused with Chad Dixon?
  
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Re: Arrested NSA Contractor Hal Martin "Passed at Least One Polygraph Test"
Reply #28 - Oct 11th, 2016 at 12:02pm
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Dan Mangan wrote on Oct 11th, 2016 at 9:39am:
Perhaps you had me confused with Chad Dixon?

I guarantee you that Dan Mangan and Chad Dixon occupy very different localities in Aunty's world model.
  
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Re: Arrested NSA Contractor Hal Martin "Passed at Least One Polygraph Test"
Reply #29 - Oct 12th, 2016 at 12:25am
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Aunty, in your world model, are the APA's home-grown researchers and statisticians legitimate scientists?
  
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