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Taking first Polygraph soon (Read 19010 times)

George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Taking first Polygraph soon Reply #15 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 8:02am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Hello1977 wrote on Sep 1^st, 2016 at 1:47am: George, thank you very much for your response. I have a few lingering questions, though. I read the link you provided as well as the entire lie behind the lie detector. Forgive my ignorance but I don't seem to understand what change from baseline they measure on your heart rate, if not increased bpm. What else besides BPM and blood pressure does the machine catalog? The cardio channel reflects changes in blood pressure and heart rate. The baseline (that is, the vertical position of the cardio waveform on the chart) rises or falls with changes in blood pressure. Quote: What physiological changes are you trying to accomplish during the control questions, in regards to heart beat? What does doing mental arithmetic do to your circulatory system responses? The cardio channel (unlike the respiratory channel) cannot be directly manipulated. However, mental such as rapidly performing mental arithmetic or physical countermeasures such as tongue-biting may result in timely changes in blood pressure and heart rate. Quote: Sorry if these are stupid questions, I apologize. I guess the way those polygraph examiner books are written is geared more towards dumbass tarrot card readers with a reading level of a 8th grader. Is my strategy of when I get a control question, exhale and do not inhale for 3-4 seconds, then answer yes or no, a solid strategy? Anything you would add or tweak in regards to my breathing countermeasure plan? Yes. It's a solid strategy. I believe that DIA polygraph chief Brett A. Stern in fact specifically mentioned this in a presentation a few years back. Quote: Secondly, I now understand you must give the "expected" answer on control questions. But, I'm confused, so the examiner is cool with you lying on control questions but not relevant? Correct. Quote: Seems pretty hypocritical and defeats the "purpose" of the test; i.e. finding out if the examinee is truthful and will answer the testers questions honestly. If someone is lying on the control questions regarding if you have ever stolen something before, why would the examiner believe anything you say from that point on? I guess it doesn't matter, and I understand I must play the game, but it just seems pretty counter-intuitive. Forgive my rambling. Remember that polygraphy is the brainchild of interrogators, not scientists. The main polygraph method in use today was devised by a crackpot who was persuaded that plants can read human minds.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: Taking first Polygraph soon Reply #16 - Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 12:56pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Hello1977 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 2:48am: Dan, would you care to weigh in on my strategy and perhaps answer the follow up questions I had... Hello1977, I do not recommend the use of countermeasures, nor do I provide advice on their implementation. As a polygraph examiner and full member of the American Polygraph Association, I hold a view that is largely deemed by the APA to be naked heresy: I agree with the findings of the National Academy of Sciences as described in their exhaustive report, "The Polygraph and Lie Detection." That makes me an apostate within the polygraph "profession." With regard to your situation, I predict that most of the in-test countermeasure attempts you employ -- as well as your "alpha" play-acting -- will backfire.


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Hello1977 New User Offline Posts: 12 Joined: Aug 30^th, 2016	Re: Taking first Polygraph soon Reply #17 - Sep 3^rd, 2016 at 5:07am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	George, I appreciate your detailed responses a great deal, thank you. I feel confident but still nervous because I have never taken one before and because I need this job badly. Dan, I appreciate your candid opinion and can respect the positions you take. If only more polygraph examiners were like yourself. Also Dan, I do not intend to act "alpha" at my polygraph examination. That comment was a joke about how if I had a colleague like quickfix, I would likely make them my bitch within the first couple of days. During my examination I intent to be friendly, humble, let the examiner feel like they are in control and also act like i believe polygraphs are 100% accurate. I have my polygraph in the next 7-14 days and then will post my experience 3-7 days after the test, so as to not be easily identified. I welcome any addition comments or opinions on my strategy and situation. Thank you everyone, and wish me luck! Still waiting on that coffee quickfix.


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disillusioned Guest	Re: Taking first Polygraph soon Reply #18 - Sep 9^th, 2016 at 4:04pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	If you really want a job at one of those three-letter-organizations, my advice is not to come in with the expectation of "I have to pass now, or my life is over." I eventually ended up passing after at least four tries, and I found the process incredibly abusive, but I'm stubborn and figured I'd go as long as they kept inviting me (not sure that's a healthy personality attribute to have). The stars aligned eventually, I guess. The real question is whether you really want to work long term for an organization that will continue to put you through this process once every five years?


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xenonman God Member Banned Offline May sarin, ricin, and variola major befall Langley Posts: 680 Location: WI USA Joined: Dec 14^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Taking first Polygraph soon Reply #19 - Sep 10^th, 2016 at 10:13am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Dan Mangan wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2016 at 1:19am: ROTFLMAO! A most predictable display of federal polygraph operator hubris. Quickifix, while you're at it, please make mine with cream and two sugars. What a schmuck... Quickfix took the bait like a novice. Classic. From the hostile tone and similar vocabulary of his replies, I seriously believe that quickfix may have been the one responsible from my removal from the "federal soup" forum.

	What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac? A great beginning! The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
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xenonman God Member Banned Offline May sarin, ricin, and variola major befall Langley Posts: 680 Location: WI USA Joined: Dec 14^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Taking first Polygraph soon Reply #20 - Sep 10^th, 2016 at 10:16am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: If you really want a job at one of those three-letter-organizations, my advice is not to come in with the expectation of "I have to pass now, or my life is over." I eventually ended up passing after at least four tries, and I found the process incredibly abusive, but I'm stubborn and figured I'd go as long as they kept inviting me (not sure that's a healthy personality attribute to have). The stars aligned eventually, I guess. The real question is whether you really want to work long term for an organization that will continue to put you through this process once every five years? That's very impressive that you were given four such opportunities. For most applicants, it's just one shot, and then they're out the door until at least their 120th birthday.

	What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac? A great beginning! The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
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xenonman God Member Banned Offline May sarin, ricin, and variola major befall Langley Posts: 680 Location: WI USA Joined: Dec 14^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Taking first Polygraph soon Reply #21 - Sep 10^th, 2016 at 10:19am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Hello1977 wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2016 at 5:07am: Still waiting on that coffee quickfix. Just hope that Mr. QF doesn't spike your coffee with the "truth serum"!

	What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac? A great beginning! The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
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Hello1977 New User Offline Posts: 12 Joined: Aug 30^th, 2016	Re: Taking first Polygraph soon Reply #22 - Sep 28^th, 2016 at 3:44am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Hello again everyone. I will be starting a new thread titled "A success story", to hopefully allow for more people to read my hypothetical experience. Long story short, I passed, hypothetically. The new thread will have a detailed account of my hypothetical experience.
	« Last Edit: Sep 28^th, 2016 at 4:26am by Hello1977 »

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Hello1977 New User Offline Posts: 12 Joined: Aug 30^th, 2016	Re: Taking first Polygraph soon Reply #23 - Sep 28^th, 2016 at 4:56am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	It's also worth noting that all of my personal information included in my first post, including my education, degrees earned, former employment, everything, was completely fabricated and not accurate. I put fake personal information so as to not be easily identified.


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xenonman God Member Banned Offline May sarin, ricin, and variola major befall Langley Posts: 680 Location: WI USA Joined: Dec 14^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Taking first Polygraph soon Reply #24 - Oct 1^st, 2016 at 5:56am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Hello1977 wrote on Sep 28^th, 2016 at 3:44am: Hello again everyone. I will be starting a new thread titled "A success story", to hopefully allow for more people to read my hypothetical experience. Long story short, I passed, hypothetically. The new thread will have a detailed account of my hypothetical experience. What is meant by "hypothetical" here?

	What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac? A great beginning! The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
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xenonman God Member Banned Offline May sarin, ricin, and variola major befall Langley Posts: 680 Location: WI USA Joined: Dec 14^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Taking first Polygraph soon Reply #25 - Oct 1^st, 2016 at 6:03am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	xenonman wrote on Sep 10^th, 2016 at 10:13am: A most predictable display of federal polygraph operator hubris. More accurately, very probably "intelligence community" hubris.

	What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac? A great beginning! The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
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