Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Here we go..... AGAIN (Read 5585 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #15 - May 15th, 2016 at 1:44am
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Joe McCarthy wrote on May 15th, 2016 at 12:50am:
While I will agree that consumer/examinee proaction does need to be reviewed and given more focus, I do not think that Dan's approach will achieve much without a board of directors willing to hand him the bully pulpit he desires.


Joe, the bully pulpit is not the BOD's to hand over.

The bully pulpit will be what I make of the street cred (i.e., exploitation) that comes with holding the successive offices of APA president-elect, president, and chairman of the board.

Combined, I'll have a full three-year window to rewrite the APA narrative about polygraph by exposing the truth about the risks, realities and limitations of the "test" --as well as revealing the machinations behind the APA's "Meta-Analytic Survey of Criterion Accuracy of Validated Polygraph Techniques," which claims a whopping 89% accuracy for specific-issue exams and 85% accuracy for multiple-issue polygraphs. (Those claims are unrealistic, in my opinion.)

That three-year window translates to a lot of columns in the APA magazine, assorted print-media articles, timely and relevant talk-radio interviews, and possibly appearances on television.

File under: Dedicated to truth
« Last Edit: May 15th, 2016 at 2:45am by Dan Mangan »  
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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #16 - May 15th, 2016 at 2:02am
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did he just use the term "steet cred"?
  

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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #17 - May 18th, 2016 at 7:19pm
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Ok, update.

One the the things I hear a lot within the industry is, Hold on let me look for the best quote in my emails;

"This is an issue for the courts to handle; not for the industry, or you going public."

That was a comment made in confidence, so I am not attaching a name to it;  I want to respect that confidence.

Anyway, I have had a great lawyers look over this issue, the evidence, footage and documents gathered.  The general consensus is, defamation is a very difficult, if not, damn near impossible in Texas.  Basically, her lies, no matter how damaging, are not cause of action enough.

SO, because the industry itself refuses to put a leash on their 500 pound gorilla in the room; and the Texas Association of Polygraph Examiners wants to use their bylaws as "guidelines", and choose selective and unfair tactics of enforcement and trying accusations, all I am left with is combating her public lies with the truth. 

Now what is really sad is, while Maria and TAPE are allowed to do, whatever they want, with impunity, I am apparently held to a higher standard; because while it is ok to defame me publicly, it seems that me defending myself with the truth is a capital offense.  This confuses me, that the truth means less than lies, because the truth is about people the polygraph industry likes and doesn't want to admit that they are doing anything wrong; because to do so would mean that people in the inner circle of the industry in Texas are corrupt and dishonest people.  I can see why this would be a hard thing for the industry to swallow.   

Irregardless (as we say back home), this does not negate the truth.

So, here is what is going to happen.  Because the industry either can't, or won't handle this internally, ya know like they said it should have been, on Polygraph Place; I am left with, literally no other option to handle this issue here and in marketing campaigns to get the DOCUMENTED TRUTH out.

Unlike what people in the industry will say, this is not my first option; and anyone who does say that, I challenge them to look me in the eye and say it while reading emails of me begging for industry intervention, so this got kept behind closed door.  All and all, what I am saying is, any examiner who says that AP was my first choice and that I want to be here, is either misinformed, or a liar; depending on who they are. 

I just hope when Maria or TAPE complains, the industry tells them the same thing I am told, "this is an issue to be handled in the courts, not within the industry."

From here on out, every time these people lie about me, I will combat it with the truth.   

I also hope that industry trade organizations, remember that the FTC, is not happy when trade organizations use power to silence competitors from truthful public criticism of other competitors though the use of what has been deemed as unlawful bylaws. 

More to come after audio and video is reviewed by my lawyers. 

Maria and TAPE want to make this a public war, so be it.  They had their chance to move on, they chose otherwise. 

If they want to say I am lying or defaming them, YOU FILE, if you can find a lawyer that will take it.  It is more cost effective for me to defend a suit anyway.  Oh and remember, I saved everything; so if you want to claim that your own documents, video, and audio, are lies; I wish you the best of luck. 

So, lets get on with the fight. Shall we?

Next post; Advice to Texas Examinees
  

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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #18 - May 18th, 2016 at 11:55pm
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Joe, my brother, let's get real.

The polygraph indu$try doesn't give a flying fornication about your travails in the great state of Texas.

From what I've observed, the "dedicated to truth" polygraph indu$try cares mostly about one thing: MONEY -- as in filthy lucre.

You want justice?

Forget about it.

IMHO, in the halls of justice, the only justice is in the halls.

Expect nothing from the indu$try, because that's exactly what you'll get. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Capiche?

Also, Joe, as a PCSOT specialist, please tell us what you think of this "revoltin' development"....

https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2016/05/15/federal-appeals-court-rules-certain-ma...
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Joe McCarthy
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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #19 - May 19th, 2016 at 10:27pm
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Dan, have you forgot that I posted the Dansby decisions a long time ago, and the internal email from Kelly Hendricks to Maria Hubbard and others on the JPCOT committee about how they tried to find a way around it.

I have always made it clear my position in regard to History tests and the 5th Amendment.

I also do a lot of work down here, with attorneys in Texas, who have led the charge for 5th amendment issues.

Here is the rub. Just because they can claim 5th amendment, does't mean they can't keep making them retake the tests till it is passed to the care providers and PO's satisfaction. That is how a lot of conditions are written.

Also, while I will admit some of my problem with texas, and the dishonest examiners in Texas, is about that I do deserve a level of justice. I will also clarify, that I believe that we in the polygraph industry should be subject to our own tests in controversies where tests can help solve the issue. Also we should be holding ourselves to a higher standard in regard to honesty in and about how we do business.

Lastly, if the examiners want to fight this war with lies, I will fight it with the truth. Every time they lie and get caught in their lies, they make the industry look bad. They will say I make the industry look bad by exposing the lies to the public; but this is the choice the industry makes when they choose to ignore the issue, rather than handle it. The liars in the industry make the industry look bad; by me calling the liars, like Maria Hubbard, Andy Sheppard, Richard Wood, etc etc, to the plate, I am trying to promote honestly and integrity within the industry, by demanding the industry do something about dishonest people, promoting "lie detector" (I hate that term) tests. If the industry chooses to ignore the issue, over address it, that is on them; and they should think about how it appears to the general public when it is not addressed.

I think as an industry we are better than this, and deep down, the industry, outside the State of Texas wants this issue done. In fact, I have been told last year, at APA, that they do the the issue in Texas done and finished; I agree with them.

However, Maria Hubbard, and the Texas Assocation of Polygraph Examiners, seems to want to hold on to this war. Think about it, even Rick Holden wants it behind us; and to his credit, and I say this with a great amount of respect, he has kept his word, and I will keep mine with him. I take my handshake and my word seriously. I am always square with my actions in regard to agreements made on a handshake, and in good faith. I only expect the same in return; and again, Holden has been square with his word.

The others in Texas should take a lesson there; but they are so wrapped around hating me, their hate blinds good decision making. This can be all done tomorrow, and all quiet again, they choose to keep it all going. My choice is to put the swords away and my actions in the past prove it. Maria and TAPE are the instigators keeping this going; their past at ions prove that.

Now, working on my advice to texas examines; which will be pated soon. I will be addressing Dansby and the 5th Amendment within that text.
« Last Edit: May 20th, 2016 at 12:53am by Joe McCarthy »  

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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #20 - Jun 17th, 2016 at 6:06am
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OK, in reference to the post from this link

https://antipolygraph.org/cgi-bin/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1465505671

I have to admit, I am pretty conflicted how to respond to this one, or to a group of examiners posting my home on this message board, on another string.

I also can't say I am really comfortable with the thought that someone has been clearly following me to my office, as one can see with the street names listed on the above linked post.I find it a wee unnerving that I am actually being stalked, and that the only likely pool of suspects, includes current or former law enforcement.

So how am I to respond? I have put great thought into this, and I think, what someone in TAPE is hoping for, is that I take proactive measures and make the first physical move. I am not the only one who has voiced this theory.

Fact is, the way this has escalated over the years, and in the past year, TAPE, and establishment examiners within TAPE, have gotten away with every unethical and illegal thing that has been done. If one were to look at the post linked above, and the post someone made earlier this year, they are far more likely to act out violently than I am. This is obvious, I am being stalked. They posted my home and my travel route to work. How should this make me feel safe?

Is that what it's going to take? Is it going to take one of these chuckleheads to actually do something stupid, thinking they'll get away with it? Only to have people at the top of the industry to say, "we had no idea it was going to come to this."

The industry is in denial. The professional organizations are in denial. Of course even if they did ask, I would only hear something lame like, "we asked everyone and they denied it." Yea ask Noah Webster, TAPE's lawyer during the lawsuit, how that works. Because that is what they told him until we got the identity to lieguytoo, who was a officer of TAPE, was discovered. They all denied it to him too. Lied straight to his face; until the subpoena came back. Oh and BTW, know why I have no trust in the justice system with this? Judge Evans let the people involved get away with that incident too.

This has been the past 8 years of my life. TAPE, and the bad actors within, get a pass; while I get practically hung financially, emotionally, and brought before ethics committees, for telling the truth, and about Maria and TAPE's BS and outright lies. Hell, I'll probably be brought up for an ethics complaint, just for posting this.

Fact is, if I tried to address this privately, I would be ignored; and my concerns would be belittled and marginalized. Just as my concerns have in the past. I'm sure I'll get into trouble for saying that too, but that has been happening. The industry would rather wait for something to actually happen to me, then they will pretend they were concerned. Even my wife has seen the indifference within the industry to question these people's actions or intent. She's never seen anything like it.

Fact is, not one person, other than Dan Megan, has shown any concern for my life and safety. He has even offered a cash reward for answers. Even with the disagreements we have, he offered to pay his own cash money for answers; the industry is building the wall of silence and indifference. The one examiner who is trying to actively destroy the polygraph industry, cares more than people who claim to want to protect the integrity of this industry. If something were to happen to me, people in the industry would care more about sweeping this under the rug, than any thought that they did nothing to try to stop it. Shame on all of you.

The industry needs to reel these people in down here in Texas in somehow, before someone gets hurt. I am begging for intervention before I take the next step to respond to the post on the APA election thread. And here is my response.

I will be posting the home addresses as well, and I will start at the top. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander. Someone knows something, and I want who this was so they can be held responsible and accountable. Someone took this way too far. I draw the line at stalking me and posting my home and my movements (phrasing). Now that someone in TAPE took it to that line, and I don't hear TAPE condemning it, I assume, posting home addresses is now acceptable. It's something I don't want to do, and I wish there were better options. Having said that, TAPE and Maria Hubbard are writing the rules.

My war has always been a war of words and of the truth. Theirs is now a war of stalking and threats of violence. How far is the industry really willing to let this go before something really bad happens?

Isn't stalking and threatening someone enough for you people to start becoming concerned? Or do you people want to get the popcorn and see if lieguy8 will have a "falling down moment."


« Last Edit: Jun 17th, 2016 at 6:41am by Joe McCarthy »  

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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #21 - Jun 17th, 2016 at 10:34am
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Ok update

It seems that lieguy8, learned from lieguytoo.  The IP, address, I am told goes back to the TOR network.  I guess chimps do learn from others mistakes. 

Also I have been asked not to post addresses here.  This is not an unreasonable request. Too bad, because Maria seemed to have three in one town, all at the same time.  Clayton is rather unremarkable, little county Road, but I'm sure he would have not appreciated the feeling that I had when I suddenly realized people know where me and my family live.  I'm sure they now can empathize with how I feel that one of their members or maybe even themselves put them in that position.

I am so sick of this.  Moreover I am sick of an industry that protects people lie lieguy8.  but then this is how it has been for 8 years.  TAPE and their unethical members within their establishment get protected, while I am told to curl up in a ball and pray they leave me alone.

I have addressed that I was afraid this would get to a point where someone would get hurt, not only this John Rios of TAPE, but also with two bigger organizations.  In all cases, my concerns were met with dismissal and minimizing.  Now things have gone too far, one or a group of these Texas chimps are now stalking me and making threats on the open internet, hiding like the cowards I always knew they were.

Nothing will be done until something happens to me, or if I see it coming, something bad happens to the stupid idiot that choose to take his or her life into their own hands. Either way, the blood will be on the hands of the industry that can't control it's violent members, but they'll try to scare someone who is telling the truth from wanting to say a word. 

Here is how this is going to go.  The threats will be ignored, minimized, and dismissed by the industry.  While members of the industry in Texas are engaging in terroristic threats and stalking, I will be disciplined for even talking about it here.  Of course what will be ignored is all the times I asked for intervention in the past before someone got hurt and my concerns were dismissed. 

Fact is, the only time the industry will care, is when one of the Texas examiners who's engaging in this activity, follows up on his or her threats, and then the industry leaders will say, "we had no idea it has got so bad in Texas"

Because that is what the industry has been good at.  Ignoring what is done here in Texas, and protecting people like Maria and the rest of the establishment.  It's much easier to blame the person exposing this groups unethical BS, than it is to address the unethical group. 

This has gone too far now.  I draw the line at being stalked and then my life threatened.
  

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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #22 - Jun 21st, 2016 at 7:10am
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I waz going to knock.

This is better. 

Did she kick you out?

Not making enough to keep her happy?

It'll only get worse.

Do the right thing.

We already know you tried.

Maybe you'll get it right next time.

  

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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #23 - Jun 21st, 2016 at 10:49am
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Quote:
I waz going to knock.

This is better.

Did she kick you out?

Not making enough to keep her happy?

It'll only get worse.

Do the right thing.

We already know you tried.

Maybe you'll get it right next time.



The twisted mind that posted this has no business pretending to assess anyone's credibility.
  

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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #24 - Jun 21st, 2016 at 3:52pm
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Quote:
I waz going to knock.

This is better.

Did she kick you out?

Not making enough to keep her happy?

It'll only get worse.

Do the right thing.

We already know you tried.

Maybe you'll get it right next time.



Aye, you should have knocked.  We could have gone down the street for wings and talk it out.  As usual, you people choose the cowards way out.  Uhg how typical.

For a group of big bad Texans, you sure seem scared of looking an insignificant yankee in the eye; or maybe, I'm not all that insignificant.  You people are spending a lot of time and effort trying to intimidate me.

So what is the plan, to troll me into having a "falling down" moment?  Ugh, when will you people learn that this is simply not going to happen.  All the years people were predicting this outcome, and it simply hasn't happened.  One would think you people would have got the idea by now.  Moreover, and with all due respect, I'm not the one stalking you till all the wee hours of the day and night.  Seems the only people who are most likely to engage in such a dangerous and violent scenario would be whomever is doing this from TAPE. 

Sorry, just calling it how I see it.  TAPE will deny it, but they denied lieguytoo also, so their credibility in this area, is nonexistent if one were to look at their history of involvement in using tis tactic.

Are you hoping I will feel threatened, and hurt someone in self defense?  Is that really something you want?  There is no way either of us come out the winner on that scenario; surely you must see this. If not, please seek professional help.

Or, from what you seem to allude, you want me to do something harmful to myself.  How do you think that makes you look?

In any case, an awful lot of trouble and effort seems to be put into silence me, either by, encouraging me to harm myself or others.  This seems silly, when the solution is much easier, and frankly, more beneficial, to all concerned. 

Anyway, I must have said something right for someone to go through such great efforts to intimidate me; wish I knew what, exactly it was.

Can I make a suggestion?  Next time, knock.  If nothing else, ya get a free meal out of it, and no one gets hurt.  How is that bad?
  

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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #25 - Jun 21st, 2016 at 11:47pm
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Ya know, a few questions have been bouncing around in my head all day.  I would really like for the persons, or person, who has been posting as lieguy to answer, but anyone else is welcome to chime in.

We had lieguytoo, lieguy8, and now lieguy9, what happened to 3-7?  I mean we are just a wee out of sequence aren't we? 

Also, this seems like a harsh escalation of hostility.  Never have I shown this level of hostility, where it crossed over into stalking.  What, I wonder, is the point where some crossed a line in their bad addled brains, which made them think this is ok?

Lastly, What is the endgame in all of this?  What does this person really hope to accomplish?

Just a wee more then a few questions which has been rolling around in the brain all day
  

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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #26 - Jun 22nd, 2016 at 1:21am
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Joe, my brother, know this:

Should I prevail in my race for president-elect of the "dedicated to truth" American Polygraph Association, upon my swearing in, I will immediately call for a full investigation into the situation you have so aptly described.

I promise you, Joe, the business meeting -- and banquet --  at the APA national shindig in Baltimore will be nothing like they have ever seen.

We need to call out the fakers and opportuni$t$.

On top of that, should I win, your plight will be the focus of my initial column in the APA magazine -- and many more columns over the next three years.

Whoever your lieguy# torturer is, that person will be found out -- and dealt with accordingly.
  
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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #27 - Jun 22nd, 2016 at 4:38am
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The only thing I would ask of any administration, is to look into this and handle it before it goes too far. 

  

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