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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Here we go..... AGAIN (Read 4972 times)
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Here we go..... AGAIN
May 8th, 2016 at 2:16am
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Just when I thought all was peaceful in Texas, someone has to go and mess it up.  I am sure I will be called, "the instigator," but kinda hard for that title to fit here.  I am sure I will be demonized for coming here.  What other options are out there that have worked for me?  I have addressed this problem a few times from within, with no results.

Maria and TAPE have ben calling me a liar. Yet, they seem to have a problem when ames to prove they are not lying, by submitting to the very test, we as an industry claims is accurate and reliable.  They run away from my proposal;  while I set the example of a polygraph examiner by encouraging the use of our own test.  What was it John Rios said? "The only person who would refuse to take a polygraph, is someone with something to hide." 

Did I get that quote right, John; or do we need to review the video?

See links below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c69bttNR7Eg&index=5&list=PLfdmQbJ2BVYROwsBSdkO9e...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxrJsrsmFd8&index=4&list=PLfdmQbJ2BVYROwsBSdkO9e...

Anyway, attached is a document that proves that Maria Hubbard is indeed engaging in behaviors that are not only slanderous and anticompetitive; her actions are unchecked, egregious, encouraged by a lack of enforcement with her past acts of libel and slander, and most of all, repugnant to the sensibilities of any decent mom or dad because of these actions happened in full view of children. 

This has officially gone too far, and it is sad I have to come here to at least make sure it is noticed by the polygraph establishment. 

Every time I grow quiet, and capitulant, it is taken as license by Maria, and her minions to re-engage in the behavior seen in the attached document.  Sad, she will not be held accountable or responsible to the TAPE bylaw, which specifically states, and I quote;


     " The Texas Association of Polygraph Examiners promoted and supports the exchange of knowledge and ideas in order to develop the highest possible standards of professional competence among members.  Each member is bound by the following Code of Ethics.

1.      To practice objectivity in all polygraph matters expressing an unbiased opinion on all such matters.

2.      To disclose information, findings or other information resulting from polygraph procedures to authorized persons only.

3.     To avoid conduct or actions that would reflect adversely on the reputation, character or integrity of the Polygraph Profession or the Association.

4.      To refrain from conduct or actions that may appear to be a conflict of interest in polygraph matters.

5.      To publicize no false or misleading information relating to the Polygraph Profession.

6.     To communicate no remarks, either expressed or implied that would appear to reflect adversely on the professional reputation or integrity of any member of the Polygraph Profession except as required by law or as provided in the Constitution or By-Laws of the Association."

No, apparently, these rules are only enforced for the truthful statements of whistleblowers, and due process as laid out in the bylaws only refer to anyone else but Joe McCarthy.  (we will get to that evidence in a later post). 

Now, I know people will say mean things about me.  I get that, and am fine with it.  Hell, Sometimes I find the mean things people say funny, and use it on others at a later point.  Where I draw the line here, is with the slander.  Just when you think there are no more lines to draw, here is another one.  Her meltdown, happened in front of children. An innocent woman was verbally attacked, a peaceful meal between a husband and wife ruined, and children learned from Maria, that this was an appropriate way to dissuade someone from making a choice to use the services of this person or that.  I can only hope her kid's father teaches her better than that. 

If this woman were Jesus' mother, he would have nailed himself to the cross. 

I only come here, again, to document this in a place, where I have no content control.  I tried to go to TAPE privately like a gentleman, granted a pissed gentleman, but I am met with silence.  Apparently, it seems, TAPE feels her behavior is appropriate.

I also anticipate, that she will get away with this, the way TAPE and her get away with all their unethical, and anticompetitive behaviors. 

I have backed down for the last time.  While I may have picked some fights in 2008 that didn't need to be picked, (most did need to be picked), since 2009, TAPE and Maria Hubbard have been the instigators.  This time, they picked one too many. 

It seems they do not like it when I tell the truth, and feel I need to be punished.  Well, in all fairness, I don't like their lies.

She wanted to pick a fight.  What's sad is, I have to come here because I know this will be seen here.  Going to the establishment will do nothing because they are afraid to do anything to her or tell her she is wrong.  The Texas polygraph industry will shun the truth teller, while they protect the liar and someone that will go into tirades in front of children. 

The polygraph establishment needs to step in here before this gets out of hand and someone gets hurt.  The idea that she will engage in this behavior, in front of children, at an event for families, should be very concerning. She is losing her grip on her self control. 

You people in the polygraph establishment created this 500 pound gorilla in the room.  You feed it, you nurtured it, you taught it new and funny tricks.  It's not cute anymore people.  The road she is taking, eventually someone is going to get hurt.  She is unbalanced to have done what she did. 

I suggest you cage this gorilla, before it becomes too hard for you to handle, and thus, get out of control.  Get a chain on her before the Gorilla, becomes TAPE's Golem.  Because if you even think she won't turn on you someday, think again. 



  


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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #1 - May 8th, 2016 at 6:27am
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Ok, now this little incident that Maria Hubbard was involved with on April 29th, I have been told that the possibility exists, someone may have been holding up their phone during the meltdown. So, lets do this. If that video exists, I am willing to pay for it. So if you have this video, and you are watching this, here is my proposal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugkON_ND4cA&feature=youtu.be
« Last Edit: May 8th, 2016 at 7:17am by Joe McCarthy »  

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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #2 - May 9th, 2016 at 7:55pm
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Joe, you are like the monster in the lake. Just when one thinks all is quiet, there is a stirring on the surface. That's a pretty cool Tony Baretta like look you got going there. But, let me see if I understand; this is all over a restaurant rant berating your professional integrity? Honestly, I think most smart people consider the source when something of this nature transpires. Maybe your fighting spirit may give unwanted attention to something that would otherwise just die quietly on the vine?
  
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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #3 - May 10th, 2016 at 12:56am
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I would say that you have a good point, here is the problem.  This has been an ongoing issue for years, only this time, someone had the guts to document it.  She also tried to pass off out right lies when she tried to pull off the stunt in 2014.  If I don't force this to come to a stop, it won't.   

It's about my integrity, yes, but when it is said that I was kicked out of TAPE, people assume I did something unethical, and I have never done anything "unethical".  Unless one considers blowing the whistle on their unethical and anticompetitive practices "unethical".  Everything that comes out of this woman's mouth about me is an outright, and intentional lie.  And it's time for me to take a stand and not back down this time, until the slander and anticompetitive behavior stops.  I gave it a chance, and she blew it; now it's time to take the next step.

People need to understand, this is not fun for me.  I would rather be competing for business on a level playing field, in an open market, where we compete on the quality of our work; not lies, dishonesty and anticompetitive tactics. 

It does make me ask this question.  What is it that they are so afraid of about me, that they feel this is necessary to compete?  I can tell you my opinion, but I am a wee biased there. 

If they were forced to tell the truth, it would end many of them; including the current president of TAPE and Maria.  But I am not asking for them to do that.  I am just demanding that they stop lying and we can all go back to business. 

Their behavior is counter productive to an open market, but productive to close the market from someone wanting to fairly compete. 

This, frankly, can be cleared up tomorrow with TAPE.  If TAPE wishes not to be involved, that can be achieved with one or two phone calls; we have done it before.   Sadly, TAPE went back on their word the day after hands were shook and peace was made.  TAPE chose a 24 hour peace, over a lasting one.  Sorry, those are the facts.

Still in the end, I let that go; and they took that as a sign of weakness in that I will never stand up for myself.  They were mistaken. 

I am capable of and still maintain a pasting peace. 

Here let me give you an example.  I made peace with Holden last year.  Other than this post, any mention of him or behavioral measures?  We made peace put it behind us, he has done and said nothing nor have I.  Unless I get credible evidence otherwise, that is the way it will stay.  I offered my hand, and my word, I stand by both.  I don't even allow anyone to say anything negative about the Holden's in my presence.  When I make a peace and give my word, that is that. 

The only monster here is the 500 pound gorilla in the room. Just when I think all is quiet, she stirs the pot; I am sick of it.  I'd rather not get TAPE involved, and I gave them a chance to at least tell me it would be handled, but I get silence.  Going off past experience, this means, they will allow this behavior from one of their officers, because they support and will cover up the behavior, as they have done in the past. 

So lets not make this seem like I am the bad guy here.  I wouldn't be here, if everyone would just go back to their corners and put the swords away.  My history shows that to be true.  I have kept every promise I made at APA, and my posts here during APA. 

At some point this has to end, and it is apparent the only way that is going to happen is to expose and then take action.  TAPE can be out of this anytime they want, they choose to be involved. 

As Maria goes, she made the choice she made. 

Even now, I am willing to handle this behind closed doors; I am also told, over the course of years that this needs to be handled from within, or through the courts.  No one has made any effort to handle this from within; I am finalizing court options; and to make it so this doesn't get whitewashed, I am making sure it is known that the Texas polygraph establishment cannot be trusted to tell the truth or do the right thing.   The consumer needs to be warned.

If the market knew the truth about these people, I mean really know the truth and listened, no one would every find these people trustworthy again.  Maria Hubbard is a liar and a highly manipulative and vindictive person.  Her behavior, which has now been exposed, bears this out. 

She will accuse me of lying.  I will accuse her of lying.  Fact is, only one of us has stepped up to the plate, and offered to take the test we sell to prove innocence.  The other ran like a rat trying to get off a sinking ship. 

So, whats it going to be?  Do we handle this from within, or do we handle this here and in the courts?  Those are the two options.  I personally pick option one, the industry and Maria likes option two.  There is no more option three.  Because whenever I am kind and reasonable, it seems what others see is the word "doormat"

I do respect what you said and will put a wee more though in it.  You've always been kind to me, and that means a lot. 

Oh, who is Tony Barretta? 
« Last Edit: May 10th, 2016 at 1:50am by Joe McCarthy »  

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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #4 - May 10th, 2016 at 1:04am
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If your integrity is under attack, then you should stand up for yourself, especially if it cuts into your livelihood. Defamation requires that you prove you were defamed, so, data collection would be wise.

I guess I'm a bit older than you Joe:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baretta
  
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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #5 - May 10th, 2016 at 1:49am
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Like I said, this has been going on for years.  This time, she was stupid enough to do it in front of someone who isn't scared of her, and a bunch of witnesses. 


And you're kidding right, over the hat?  It's not even the same hat.  I, like any self respecting Boston Irishman, wear a scally cap.  It's the "old man" hat of the Irish.... lol

Now that spring is hear and sunburn season has started, time to avoid that whole separate definition of pain.  lol

Oh also, I don't get the bird thing.  Did it at least talk?  lol
  

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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #6 - May 10th, 2016 at 1:55am
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I saw the website of this gal. She looks pretty tough, like she could put me into a Full Nelson.
  
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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #7 - May 10th, 2016 at 2:03am
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OK people, time out.

This shit has gone on for far too long.

If what Joe says is true -- and I don't doubt him for a New York minute  -- it appears that some overenthusiastic TX polygraph industry operatives fucked with the wrong guy.

The obvious question is this: Why do these people want to take Joe McCarthy down?

Are they not "dedicated to truth"?

I relish confronting the Texas contingent about this very issue at the APA's national seminar this September in Baltimore.

Yes, I will be there.

Hey, maybe it's all one big misunderstanding.

Or not.

Let's find out.




  

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
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Certified PCSOT Examiner

Website: www.polygraphman.com
Email: polygraphexam@gmail.com
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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #8 - May 10th, 2016 at 2:59am
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Dan, I wouldn't even waste my time with talking with the TAPE crowd.  Not much they say at this point can be believed; and just about anything they say about me, I can shoot down with their own emails documents and video.  I have real interesting footage from a conference we had once in San Antonio. 

Anyway, I think what they are scared of, they've been working of a fiefdom system (Don Ramsey's description of the Texas Market, not mine) for so long, if they actually had to compete in an American Capitalist free Market, it would kill their income. 

Also if there will people checking behind them, examinees demanding charts, and lawyers asking the right questions, shit would really hit the fan in some counties.  Then TDLR codifying JPCOT, as it stands, so they have to follow those rules by LAW.  Oh the indignity of it all. 

Of course, I am not sure if TDLR knows that there is a regulatory commission that isn't answerable to the Governor or the voters of Texas

In a nutshell, what they are scared of most, is me turning Texas into an honest business market; them losing all regulatory power and credibility; and competing honestly, with honest examiners. 

Because I am the only examiner to stand up to the establishment, I am the one they fear.  Everyone else is either capitulant to the fiefdom system, or are not seen as a legitimate threat.  Sorry, I call it like I see it or it is. 

As far as Maria and company being dedicated to the truth; how can they be, they are either afraid of or don't believe in the very test they sell.  AND THAT IS A FACT, as one can plainly see in their refusal to settle the issue though repeated testing requests.  I mean seriously, I haven't seen southern people run so fast since I watched Forest Gump last.

Run Maria run............  lol




« Last Edit: May 10th, 2016 at 3:43am by Joe McCarthy »  

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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #9 - May 10th, 2016 at 3:14am
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Joe McCarthy wrote on May 10th, 2016 at 2:59am:
Because I am the only examiner to stand up to the establishment, I am the one they fear.


Based on my own experience, I'd say that is absolutely true.
  

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
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Certified PCSOT Examiner

Website: www.polygraphman.com
Email: polygraphexam@gmail.com
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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #10 - May 10th, 2016 at 3:33am
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Now having said all that, here is what's going to happen.  Maria will start crying, yelling, screaming, and melting down, to NPA, APA, or anyone else who will listen, claiming to be a "victim", when she clearly picked this fight.  What's really sad is, very few people will have the guts to look her in the eye and tell her, "you brought it on yourself.... Everything was nice and quiet, and then you decided to pick a fight.  You're on your own, we will no longer be your weapons or your savior."

Because that is what she does.  She can't fight her own battles with facts, so she expects others to fight for her, and she expects people to use her LIES.

Bullies typically will hide behind others.   
« Last Edit: May 10th, 2016 at 3:48am by Joe McCarthy »  

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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #11 - May 10th, 2016 at 7:52am
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Here is some interesting email exchanges between me and TAPE leadership in 2010, you know, when Maria Hubbard says I was "kicked" or "Voted out."

As you can clearly see, Maria's email address in distribution of these emails.  Therefore, whenever she tells someone, I was kicked or voted out due to ethics issues, you can actually see the ethics issues, where their own.

On Page 7, there is important information.  Stewart Ervin says in his email, "The Board of Directors, already decided the issue and it would go up for membership vote." 

Back then, and NOW, the bylaws have a specific manner of due process, that as one can easily see, I was never afforded.  This is the reason, as one can see, that I resigned; other than I was not going to stand in front of a kangaroo court.

Interesting note there.  John Rios, and Jack St. John both told me in 2014, that no Board of Directors Vote occurred.  Mike Chimeras told me the same thing in another conversation.  So, Stuart Eivin obtained my resignation through FRAUD.  Either that, or John Rios, Jack St. John, and Mike Chimeras lied to me; this is possible too.

Isn't it funny, that when dealing with the Texas Association of Polygraph Examiners, Ya just never really know who is lying to you.  Shouldn't we expect better than that from our leaders?  I still don't know who is telling the truth.  But we do know that either Stuart, Mike, John, or Jack, are certainly lying.  Maybe they will enlighten us who it may be.  What do ya say guys, wanna tell the class who is lying?   

Oooooo, better idea, lets line them up outside the polygraph room door and test them.  Someone is lying, and someone is telling the truth.  None of them will have the guts, so I guess we just assume, all of them played their part and are lying to some degree or another.  In any regard, what does this say to their credibility as polygraph examiners?  Interesting question huh?

And now that we have proven, without a doubt, that I was not dismissed form TAPE, and in fact, I was forced to resign because the cards were staked; this blows Maria Hubbard's credibility out of the water as well. 

Why would any probation or parole department, any treatment provider, any lawyer, or any private person, use the services of a polygraph examiner, who would so blatantly lie?  This does make her quite impeachable in testimony, doesn't it?  Oh don't worry, I have other documented cases where she has blatantly lied.  I am sure once her divorce is over, we will be enlightened in even more cases. 

Every lie of theirs is going to be exposed and more. 

The best part is, I will use their own communications pictures, video, and documentation against them. 

Hey, this is the game Maria choose to play for ya.  You can thank her anytime.  Or you can tell me you want no part in it.

NOTE:  These emails are not all inclusive, there are far more, these are just the documents that love Maria has a problem with the truth in regard to my departure from TAPE.  There will be more to come.

Also, it should be noted, that the resignation has Holden's name and the name of his company.  This was written back in 2010, and since, as we all know, Holden and I have come to a peace.  Mr. Holden has acted honorably, and I no longer have anything negative to say about Eric or Jay.  They are both good men who have kept their word and acted like honorable gentleman.  I apologize in advance to them for this document, but it is needed to illustrate Hubbard's lies.



« Last Edit: May 10th, 2016 at 1:55pm by Joe McCarthy »  

TAPE_resignation.pdf ( 396 KB | 119 Downloads )
TAPE_emails_001.pdf ( 1542 KB | 133 Downloads )

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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #12 - May 12th, 2016 at 6:02am
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Joe,
Why don't you toss your hat in for the APA election? That would definitely generate some critical mass.
  
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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #13 - May 12th, 2016 at 2:38pm
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Ark, to the best of my knowledge, Joe does not belong to the APA.

However, he should. The organization would benefit greatly from Joe McCarthy -- and many more like him.

I agree that his presence in the 2016 APA elections would help shake things up.

Meanwhile, I am hopeful that we will see a good showing of outsider candidates for ALL open positions this time around, but especially for the office of president-elect.

Women, minorities, and non-WASP members would bring some much-needed balance to the APA board of directors.

It's time to break the back of the traditional good 'ol boy APA establishment.
  

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
Full Member, American Polygraph Association
Certified PCSOT Examiner

Website: www.polygraphman.com
Email: polygraphexam@gmail.com
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Re: Here we go..... AGAIN
Reply #14 - May 15th, 2016 at 12:50am
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Forgive my slow response, I have been weighing options, and decisions will come very soon.  In the meantime, I will continue to defend against Maria's lies with the truth. 

It should be noted that defending myself from the lies of TAPE and Ms. Hubbard, is being done at great professional risk.  It seems telling the truth about the Texas polygraph industry is a risky proposition. 

Anyway.

Ex Member wrote on May 12th, 2016 at 6:02am:
Joe,
Why don't you toss your hat in for the APA election? That would definitely generate some critical mass.

Dan Mangan wrote on May 12th, 2016 at 2:38pm:
Ark, to the best of my knowledge, Joe does not belong to the APA.

However, he should. The organization would benefit greatly from Joe McCarthy -- and many more like him.

I agree that his presence in the 2016 APA elections would help shake things up.

Meanwhile, I am hopeful that we will see a good showing of outsider candidates for ALL open positions this time around, but especially for the office of president-elect.

Women, minorities, and non-WASP members would bring some much-needed balance to the APA board of directors.

It's time to break the back of the traditional good 'ol boy APA establishment.


I may show up to APA, if for nothing else but to see that the earlier listed complaint made it to the ethics committee, offer my two cents (if allowed.  If not I understand, after all I am not a member), and hopefully see that she is at the very least admonished for her poor behavior, in front of children and conduct unbecoming a committee member; something.

At best, I do not want to bring critical mass, I want to encourage homeostasis.  While Maria and TAPE seem to favor a prolonged war, my actions have shown that I favor everyone putting swords away and going home. 

Everyone was prepared for the worst at last years APA, including myself, and we all proved to one another that we can be decent to each other; with the exception of maria.  Even the Holden's and I shook and called it quits.  A peace, that to my knowledge, has not been broken.  So much for me being the instigator huh?

In fact, I would hope that the APA would want to get everyone in the same room, and iron this out before it gets out of hand.  While I understand the APA' s positions that they have no jurisdiction, lets face it, the APA is very influential.  Given that the current president and the president elect are from Texas, you would think they have a small versed interest in a peaceful Texas market.  NOTE: I know both the current president and president elect to be good men.  I respect them both and would prefer not to engage in any negative discussions about either man. 

If I do go to APA this year, I will entertain membership, no matter what the outcome of any outside issues. 

As far as office goes, Dan and I have similar points of view over a couple issues, but different approaches in regard to fixing them.  Moreover, any position I may or may not hold in the future, comes with, checks, balances, and restraints of power; AS IT SHOULD BE. 

As an officer, I would be elected to be fair, independent, and unbiased; on the side of the truth, making the industry better, and improving polygraph to ALL who come into contact with it. 

The stand point of bringing polygraph down from within will change nothing and cause more angst and animosity, in a profession which seems to have enough already.

While I will agree that consumer/examinee proaction does need to be reviewed and given more focus, I do not think that Dan's approach will achieve much without a board of directors willing to hand him the bully pulpit he desires. 

The changes that do need to be made, should be made because people know that the changes are necessary to show the public that we can govern ourselves responsibly.  I strongly believe that this app rock is needed to prevent another EPPA, which even a few big names in the industry have agreed is inevitable, if this industry down't get our shit together.

I do feel that PCSOT needs to have more teeth, to make sure anyone APA PCSOT follow the rules set by the APA.  Either that or encourage states to codify APA and or  JPCOT guidelines, so as to take licensing and enforcement out of the private sector totally, leaving only in place the ability to instruct and advice with new updates of the law that support research. 

Right now, there are lots of people getting improper PCSOT tests, but because PCSOT is not addresses in polygraph law, and the APA is, for the most part a "toothless organization"  (not my words), It leaves the consumer/examinee no recourse to complain. 

I also think that bylaws need to be passed, similar to that of the AAPP and the Arizona Polygraph Examiners Association, in regard to the use of polygraph during ethics  investigations, where appropriate and needed.  If we, as an industry, expect the consumer to buy the product we sell, should we not make an example, and show the consumer, that we use the test we sell, to help solve our own problems from within?

I know examiners disagree with me, but we look pretty arrogant when we say it's good enough for everyone else, but nor for us. 

Now, where Dan and I agree a lot on, with what is said above, we do need balanced leadership.  But that is really a matter of the people stepping up to run, and then the members having the right to vote.  Sorry, as with any election, it is about the vote.  We have learned that lesson over the past 12 to 16 years of political division in this county. 

I also agree that the old ole boy system needs to go.  Problem is, once you oust one good ole boy club, another will form and take the place of the outgoing one.  Checks and balances need to be explored. 

My gripe is with TAPE and Maria for the most part.  My only gripe with the industry, is it's unwillingness to step in and use the influence it has, to make sure that even state agencies don't act in a manner that puts forth an appearance of impropriety.  Sorry I feel if I had the right to seek remedy within the industry with the TAPE issue back in 2010, I strongly believe none of the past two years would have been necessary.

Now, let me say something good about the APA; something they did right.

The antitrust policies and statement which were put forward by the APA recently, was a good move on the part of the organization.  If only TAPE and other organizations would ask the APA why it was done, and should they follow suit.  But hey, the FTC will eventually catch up to that.  It's only a matter of time, especially for TAPE...

In a nutshell, the Krackin people see me as, only comes to the surface when it is time for a fight.  The rest of the time, I am shockingly reasonable, and very flexible.  I am the easiest person in the world to talk to as long as reason is a two way street.  In the end, I would rather see the right thing done, over what is right for me; because sometimes I am wrong.  When that happens, I admit it, but when I am right, I'll fight for that of which I believe.

Now, back to sorting through the documents and data I have received recently in regard to current issues in Texas.  Hope everyone has a good night.
« Last Edit: May 15th, 2016 at 1:59am by Joe McCarthy »  

Joe
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