Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3]  ReplyAdd Poll Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Do you receive results? (Read 21925 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: Do you receive results?
Reply #30 - Apr 4th, 2016 at 5:28pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Only in cases where such attempts were visible to the naked eye (or ear, in instances, say, of muted whimpers heard during CQs). Also, it is not unusual for the presence of possible CMs to be concurrently flagged by the evidence-based scientific machinations of OSS3.

To be clear, when I refer to observations via the naked eye, that means examinee behavior as well as chart interpretation.

That said, polygraph operators -- and scoring algorithms -- don't know what they don't know.

And therein lies the problem.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Ex Member
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 710
Joined: Dec 9th, 2012
Re: Do you receive results?
Reply #31 - Apr 4th, 2016 at 6:07pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Could the Hope/Fear spot elucidate any cues to CM's?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: Do you receive results?
Reply #32 - Apr 4th, 2016 at 7:04pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Ark, my opinion is that the Fear-Hope spot of the MQTZCT is most valuable. Indeed, it can serve as a cue for the presence of CMs that would otherwise go undetected.

I sometimes use a MQTZCT exam as a follow-up to a mainstream technique -- such as a Federal Zone of single-issue AFMGQT -- that shows signs of CMs, or when an examinee claims to be the victim of a false-positive result.

As you are probably aware, the MQTZCT has been branded as a boutique technique by the APA. The Quadri-Track's complexities appear to be too daunting for the industry's own scientists, who promote a simplified, dumbed-down, paint-by-number approach to polygraph "testing."

  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Ex Member
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 710
Joined: Dec 9th, 2012
Re: Do you receive results?
Reply #33 - Apr 4th, 2016 at 7:19pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Dan Mangan wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 7:04pm:
The Quadri-Track's complexities appear to be too daunting for the industry's own scientists

Indeed, scientists often need a competent engineer to slap them in the face.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Ex Member
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 710
Joined: Dec 9th, 2012
Re: Do you receive results?
Reply #34 - Apr 4th, 2016 at 7:22pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
IMHO, although accused of lacking a "scientific" foundation, the more I consider the MQTZCT the more it feels intuitively correct. It's a very creative and thought provoking concept.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: Do you receive results?
Reply #35 - Apr 4th, 2016 at 7:52pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Ex Member wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 7:22pm:
the more I consider the MQTZCT the more it feels intuitively correct.



Ark, in the right hands -- that is, someone who was trained by Backster himself in the seminal Backster method, then personally trained by Matte in his evolutionary method -- the MQTZCT works better than anything else.

Polygraph is an art, not a science.

Don't let the cool kids who comprise the APA's oh-so-fashionable brain trust tell you otherwise.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box xenonman
God Member
Banned
*****
Offline


May sarin, ricin, and
variola major befall
Langley

Posts: 680
Location: WI   USA
Joined: Dec 14th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Do you receive results?
Reply #36 - Apr 6th, 2016 at 4:27pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
"Brain trust"  ?   

Those charlatans have no brains!    lol Cheesy
  

What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security
and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac?   A great beginning!

The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
Back to top
YouTube  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6225
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Do you receive results?
Reply #37 - May 26th, 2016 at 1:24pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Dan Mangan wrote on Mar 21st, 2016 at 7:07pm:
Our sanctioned testing methods need to evolve to a greater extent than they have thus far.

One option might be to adopt the EyeDetect-PDD successive hurdle model, which is said to provide an outcome confidence of 97%.

Learn more here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O8zN0o1qt9k


Dan,

Sorry for the late reply. It seems to me that Converus's EyeDetect, like polygraphy, is snake oil. "Successive hurdles" of pseudoscience will predictably yield less reliable results, not more.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: Do you receive results?
Reply #38 - May 27th, 2016 at 1:41am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
George, could you be mistaken?

I'm confused...

I thought it was all spelled out right here:

http://converus.com/american-association-police-polygraphists-article-says-using...

If you dispute the findings of APA editor-in-chief Mark Handler -- a former police officer and well-regarded polygraph scientist with many published articles to his credit -- I suggest you articulate your argument.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Ex Member
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 710
Joined: Dec 9th, 2012
Re: Do you receive results?
Reply #39 - May 27th, 2016 at 3:30am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Ex Member wrote on Mar 21st, 2016 at 7:36pm:
The reality is that the use of ocular metrics for PDD is nascent and immature. I am only aware of 2 attempts at field studies. The first was conducted on Federal Government employees, N=94. The results were a modest 77% accuracy. The second involved job applicants in Colombia, N=94. The results were nil--no demonstrated ability to distinguish between the two groups. The two laboratory experiments that I'm aware of, reported approximately 85% accuracy.


A re-emphasis from my previous post. 

Mr. Handler's paper does not elucidate this reality.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6225
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Do you receive results?
Reply #40 - May 27th, 2016 at 9:46am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Dan Mangan wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 1:41am:
If you dispute the findings of APA editor-in-chief Mark Handler -- a former police officer and well-regarded polygraph scientist with many published articles to his credit -- I suggest you articulate your argument.


EyeDetect, like polygraphy, has not been proven through peer-reviewed research to distinguish between truth-tellers and liars at better-than-chance levels under field conditions.

As is the case with polygraphy, none of the indices measured by EyeDetect have been shown to be systematically correlated with deception in humans.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Neal Harris
Guest


Re: Do you receive results?
Reply #41 - Sep 19th, 2016 at 6:01pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Dan Mangan wrote on May 27th, 2016 at 1:41am:
George, could you be mistaken?

I'm confused...

I thought it was all spelled out right here:

http://converus.com/american-association-police-polygraphists-article-says-using...

If you dispute the findings of APA editor-in-chief Mark Handler -- a former police officer and well-regarded polygraph scientist with many published articles to his credit -- I suggest you articulate your argument.


I verified a few minutes ago that Russ Warner from Converus was misquoted in this article.  Converus only quotes accuracy rates from Dr. Kircher's peer- reviewed and published research studies - .83 and .88 for a mean of .85.

Converus does not make exaggerated or false claims of accuracy, and has asked the magazine to issue a retraction.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: Do you receive results?
Reply #42 - Sep 19th, 2016 at 7:33pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
Converus only quotes accuracy rates from Dr. Kircher's peer-reviewed and published research studies - .83 and .88 for a mean of .85.


If that is true, Neal, then why did Converus post this video on YouTube claiming 97% outcome confidence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8zN0o1qt9k
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box xenonman
God Member
Banned
*****
Offline


May sarin, ricin, and
variola major befall
Langley

Posts: 680
Location: WI   USA
Joined: Dec 14th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Do you receive results?
Reply #43 - Sep 21st, 2016 at 7:35pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Ex Member wrote on Mar 20th, 2016 at 10:40pm:
There is a time to use countermeasures


There is a time for every purpose under heaven.
A time to use countermeasures, a time to not....

lol Cheesy
  

What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security
and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac?   A great beginning!

The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
Back to top
YouTube  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box xenonman
God Member
Banned
*****
Offline


May sarin, ricin, and
variola major befall
Langley

Posts: 680
Location: WI   USA
Joined: Dec 14th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Do you receive results?
Reply #44 - Sep 21st, 2016 at 8:07pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Ex Member wrote on Mar 19th, 2016 at 5:02pm:
Kubota139 wrote on Mar 19th, 2016 at 11:44am:
I need to do it and beat it using the techniques here.

So you want to "beat" an infidelity polygraph? How about just being faithful to your wife? If this is something you cannot or will not do, then you are better to get a divorce and live your life of promiscuity. If you do want to salvage your marriage, you will always fail if it is built upon a foundation of deceit.


Another option might be "polyamory", about which there is much material online! Cool
  

What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security
and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac?   A great beginning!

The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
Back to top
YouTube  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 
ReplyAdd Poll Send TopicPrint
Do you receive results?

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X