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Do you receive results? (Read 20913 times)

Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: Do you receive results? Reply #30 - Apr 4^th, 2016 at 5:28pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Only in cases where such attempts were visible to the naked eye (or ear, in instances, say, of muted whimpers heard during CQs). Also, it is not unusual for the presence of possible CMs to be concurrently flagged by the evidence-based scientific machinations of OSS3. To be clear, when I refer to observations via the naked eye, that means examinee behavior as well as chart interpretation. That said, polygraph operators -- and scoring algorithms -- don't know what they don't know. And therein lies the problem.


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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: Do you receive results? Reply #31 - Apr 4^th, 2016 at 6:07pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Could the Hope/Fear spot elucidate any cues to CM's?


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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: Do you receive results? Reply #32 - Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:04pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Ark, my opinion is that the Fear-Hope spot of the MQTZCT is most valuable. Indeed, it can serve as a cue for the presence of CMs that would otherwise go undetected. I sometimes use a MQTZCT exam as a follow-up to a mainstream technique -- such as a Federal Zone of single-issue AFMGQT -- that shows signs of CMs, or when an examinee claims to be the victim of a false-positive result. As you are probably aware, the MQTZCT has been branded as a boutique technique by the APA. The Quadri-Track's complexities appear to be too daunting for the industry's own scientists, who promote a simplified, dumbed-down, paint-by-number approach to polygraph "testing."


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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: Do you receive results? Reply #33 - Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:19pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Dan Mangan wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:04pm: The Quadri-Track's complexities appear to be too daunting for the industry's own scientists Indeed, scientists often need a competent engineer to slap them in the face.


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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: Do you receive results? Reply #34 - Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:22pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	IMHO, although accused of lacking a "scientific" foundation, the more I consider the MQTZCT the more it feels intuitively correct. It's a very creative and thought provoking concept.


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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: Do you receive results? Reply #35 - Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:52pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Ex Member wrote on Apr 4^th, 2016 at 7:22pm: the more I consider the MQTZCT the more it feels intuitively correct. Ark, in the right hands -- that is, someone who was trained by Backster himself in the seminal Backster method, then personally trained by Matte in his evolutionary method -- the MQTZCT works better than anything else. Polygraph is an art, not a science. Don't let the cool kids who comprise the APA's oh-so-fashionable brain trust tell you otherwise.


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xenonman God Member Banned Offline May sarin, ricin, and variola major befall Langley Posts: 680 Location: WI USA Joined: Dec 14^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Do you receive results? Reply #36 - Apr 6^th, 2016 at 4:27pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	"Brain trust" ? Those charlatans have no brains! lol

	What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac? A great beginning! The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Do you receive results? Reply #37 - May 26^th, 2016 at 1:24pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Dan Mangan wrote on Mar 21^st, 2016 at 7:07pm: Our sanctioned testing methods need to evolve to a greater extent than they have thus far. One option might be to adopt the EyeDetect-PDD successive hurdle model, which is said to provide an outcome confidence of 97%. Learn more here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O8zN0o1qt9k Dan, Sorry for the late reply. It seems to me that Converus's EyeDetect, like polygraphy, is snake oil. "Successive hurdles" of pseudoscience will predictably yield less reliable results, not more.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: Do you receive results? Reply #38 - May 27^th, 2016 at 1:41am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	George, could you be mistaken? I'm confused... I thought it was all spelled out right here: http://converus.com/american-association-police-polygraphists-article-says-using... If you dispute the findings of APA editor-in-chief Mark Handler -- a former police officer and well-regarded polygraph scientist with many published articles to his credit -- I suggest you articulate your argument.


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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: Do you receive results? Reply #39 - May 27^th, 2016 at 3:30am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Ex Member wrote on Mar 21^st, 2016 at 7:36pm: The reality is that the use of ocular metrics for PDD is nascent and immature. I am only aware of 2 attempts at field studies. The first was conducted on Federal Government employees, N=94. The results were a modest 77% accuracy. The second involved job applicants in Colombia, N=94. The results were nil--no demonstrated ability to distinguish between the two groups. The two laboratory experiments that I'm aware of, reported approximately 85% accuracy. A re-emphasis from my previous post. Mr. Handler's paper does not elucidate this reality.


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Do you receive results? Reply #40 - May 27^th, 2016 at 9:46am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Dan Mangan wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 1:41am: If you dispute the findings of APA editor-in-chief Mark Handler -- a former police officer and well-regarded polygraph scientist with many published articles to his credit -- I suggest you articulate your argument. EyeDetect, like polygraphy, has not been proven through peer-reviewed research to distinguish between truth-tellers and liars at better-than-chance levels under field conditions. As is the case with polygraphy, none of the indices measured by EyeDetect have been shown to be systematically correlated with deception in humans.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Neal Harris Guest	Re: Do you receive results? Reply #41 - Sep 19^th, 2016 at 6:01pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Dan Mangan wrote on May 27^th, 2016 at 1:41am: George, could you be mistaken? I'm confused... I thought it was all spelled out right here: http://converus.com/american-association-police-polygraphists-article-says-using... If you dispute the findings of APA editor-in-chief Mark Handler -- a former police officer and well-regarded polygraph scientist with many published articles to his credit -- I suggest you articulate your argument. I verified a few minutes ago that Russ Warner from Converus was misquoted in this article. Converus only quotes accuracy rates from Dr. Kircher's peer- reviewed and published research studies - .83 and .88 for a mean of .85. Converus does not make exaggerated or false claims of accuracy, and has asked the magazine to issue a retraction.


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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: Do you receive results? Reply #42 - Sep 19^th, 2016 at 7:33pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: Converus only quotes accuracy rates from Dr. Kircher's peer-reviewed and published research studies - .83 and .88 for a mean of .85. If that is true, Neal, then why did Converus post this video on YouTube claiming 97% outcome confidence? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8zN0o1qt9k


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xenonman God Member Banned Offline May sarin, ricin, and variola major befall Langley Posts: 680 Location: WI USA Joined: Dec 14^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Do you receive results? Reply #43 - Sep 21^st, 2016 at 7:35pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Ex Member wrote on Mar 20^th, 2016 at 10:40pm: There is a time to use countermeasures There is a time for every purpose under heaven. A time to use countermeasures, a time to not.... lol

	What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac? A great beginning! The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
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xenonman God Member Banned Offline May sarin, ricin, and variola major befall Langley Posts: 680 Location: WI USA Joined: Dec 14^th, 2009 Gender:	Re: Do you receive results? Reply #44 - Sep 21^st, 2016 at 8:07pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Ex Member wrote on Mar 19^th, 2016 at 5:02pm: Kubota139 wrote on Mar 19^th, 2016 at 11:44am: I need to do it and beat it using the techniques here. So you want to "beat" an infidelity polygraph? How about just being faithful to your wife? If this is something you cannot or will not do, then you are better to get a divorce and live your life of promiscuity. If you do want to salvage your marriage, you will always fail if it is built upon a foundation of deceit. Another option might be "polyamory", about which there is much material online!

	What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac? A great beginning! The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
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