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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Polygraph administrator had me lie. (Read 14604 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Fisherman67
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Polygraph administrator had me lie.
Dec 12th, 2015 at 11:45am
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Hi.  I'm new to this, and looking for more info, after failing a poly graph.

Prior to the test, I disagreed to one of the 4 main topic questions.  While I said I had broken a written rule, the examiner explained that I didn't really break the written rule and I should answer the test as if I didn't break it.  After the test, he said there was issues with me lying on this question.

Should the polygraph examiner be allowed to interpret the written rules and have me change my answer?
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Polygraph administrator had me lie.
Reply #1 - Dec 12th, 2015 at 2:03pm
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The question about having broken a written rule was a probable-lie "control" question. You'll find this type of question explained in detail in Chapter 3 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector:

https://antipolygraph.org/lie-behind-the-lie-detection.pdf

Polygraphers expect that everyone has broken a written rule, and that when an examinee answers this question "no," that it will be a lie. If the examiner later accused you of "having issues" with this question, then it would suggest that you probably actually passed the polygraph. Were you accused of deception with respect to any other question?
  

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Re: Polygraph administrator had me lie.
Reply #2 - Dec 12th, 2015 at 3:00pm
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Thanks for your response, but it was not a control question.

The question asked was - Did you break the rules of the fishing tournament? During the pre-screening, I told that administrator that I had not followed a rule due to a fishing licensing rule.  The administrator said that the fishing tournament rule I felt I didn't follow, didn't really apply to me, so I should answer as "yes" meaning I followed all the rules of the tournament - this rule was written in the rules.  I still don't think I follow the rule since it did not have a clause that applied to my situation.
  
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Re: Polygraph administrator had me lie.
Reply #3 - Dec 12th, 2015 at 4:49pm
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Fisherman, what was the wording of the rule you think you broke which the examiner said didn't apply to you?
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Polygraph administrator had me lie.
Reply #4 - Dec 12th, 2015 at 4:54pm
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Oh, I see. I had supposed this to have been a pre-employment polygraph examination. Normal polygraph procedure would have been to rephrase the relevant question to "Other than what you told me, did you follow all of the rules of the fishing tournament?"

Your polygrapher's instruction that you answer the question "yes" without modification may have made your failing more likely. But it's important to bear in mind that polygraph "testing" has no scientific basis to begin with. False positives are common.

Was your polygraph session video-recorded? If so, and if you can get a copy along with the polygraph charts and associated forms, I'd be happy to review them for you and provide a written critique.
  

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Re: Polygraph administrator had me lie.
Reply #5 - Dec 12th, 2015 at 5:01pm
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The written rule that I feel I broke was that "all participants must have a valid fishing license".  Since my son is under 16, he is not allowed to buy a fishing license and doesn't need one to fish.

The session was not recorded.
  
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Re: Polygraph administrator had me lie.
Reply #6 - Dec 12th, 2015 at 6:46pm
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So if the rule says that all participants must have a valid fishing license, then those too young to obtain a fishing license should not have been allowed to participate. So, your son broke the rule, not you. But, since your son is a minor, you feel legally responsible for his decisions, thus the question bothered you.

However, as George noted, even the least skilled of examiners know how to properly preface questions to accommodate for admissions. The examiner should have easily been able to work through this snag.

Therefore, me thinks something is fishy here....
  
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Re: Polygraph administrator had me lie.
Reply #7 - Dec 13th, 2015 at 11:05pm
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You are 100% right that the questions should have been restated.  After I failed, I talked with the person who gave the lie detector test and he suggested a more specific test.  I offered this to the tournament director and offered to pay for the test, but he refused.  I paid and did another polygraph with a person that actually used a computer version polygraph, not the paper/pen type originally used, re-stated the questions and passed.  The results were sent to the tournament director, and he is not acknowledging the email, but has read it.

The tournament director agrees that my son is allow to enter, and was upset that I couldn't get over the written rule.  I told him before and after the test, that I couldn't say I followed the rules since there was no written disclaimer for my son age.  Ironically, the second place was a kid who also didn't have a license.

One thing I thought was strange, was that the first question stated for me to pick a number between 3-7 and write it down.  Then he asked my to say no when he asked if 1 was my number, all the way to 10.  After that, he said my number was 5.  I pulled out the paper with 6 written down, and from that point on, kind of thought the guy was a not competent.  I told that to the tournament director, and he got irate - but I later found reason to believe that they are friends.

He also did not tell me that he would be going through the set of questions three times, which made me nervous during the second set of questions, because I thought I must have screwed up something.

Is there any action that I should take against the administrator of the exam?  I'm already in the process of starting legal action against the tournament.  I offered to try to resolve this after I gave him the polygraph results that I completed, but he is refusing.
  
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Re: Polygraph administrator had me lie.
Reply #8 - Dec 14th, 2015 at 12:50am
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Fisherman,

There are no differences between the charts produced by analog vs. computerized polygraph instruments; all pertinent physiological indices are captured. If what you say is accurate, the first examiner needs to brush up on some basic skills, such as question formulation and informing the examinee of the complete process during the pretest interview.

My advice is to let the whole matter go. All it will do is taint your joy of fishing and prematurely embroil your son into contentious issues during his carefree years...
« Last Edit: Dec 14th, 2015 at 5:17am by Ex Member »  
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Re: Polygraph administrator had me lie.
Reply #9 - Dec 14th, 2015 at 1:12am
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It's already tainted my view of fishing...

It's hard to let something go when you know you are right, and people are labeling you as a cheater. Also, this has the potential to prevent both my son and I from entering another fishing tournament.
  
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Re: Polygraph administrator had me lie.
Reply #10 - Dec 14th, 2015 at 3:51am
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Fisherman67 wrote on Dec 14th, 2015 at 1:12am:
It's hard to let something go when you know you are right, and people are labeling you as a cheater. Also, this has the potential to prevent both my son and I from entering another fishing tournament.


I'm sorry, but I'm just coming in on this conversation and can't find the initial thread.  Are they polygraphing people in fishing tournaments ?
  
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Re: Polygraph administrator had me lie.
Reply #11 - Dec 14th, 2015 at 8:01am
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Fisherman67 wrote on Dec 13th, 2015 at 11:05pm:
One thing I thought was strange, was that the first question stated for me to pick a number between 3-7 and write it down.  Then he asked my to say no when he asked if 1 was my number, all the way to 10.  After that, he said my number was 5.  I pulled out the paper with 6 written down, and from that point on, kind of thought the guy was a not competent.

Missing the correct number is not necessarily a measure of incompetence; at least the guy did an honest acquaintance test.
  
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Re: Polygraph administrator had me lie.
Reply #12 - Dec 14th, 2015 at 12:46pm
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Wandersmann wrote on Dec 14th, 2015 at 3:51am:
I'm sorry, but I'm just coming in on this conversation and can't find the initial thread.  Are they polygraphing people in fishing tournaments ? 


I am wondering the same.  Why the hell is someone taking a polygraph for a fishing tournament?  This polygraph shit is getting way out of hand.
  
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Re: Polygraph administrator had me lie.
Reply #13 - Dec 14th, 2015 at 7:49pm
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Polygraphing fishing contestants is nothing new.  It's been part of the contests for at least 30 years that I know of.  Some of these contests pay thousands of dollars in prize money.  Contestants have been known to bring their own "catch", stuff a fish with lead weights to increase the poundage of their catch, etc.
  
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Re: Polygraph administrator had me lie.
Reply #14 - Dec 15th, 2015 at 2:34am
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Yes.  They are doing polygraphs on fishing tournaments, especially since there isn't much control to it, and since they don't do any checks on the fish.  Some tournaments do metal detection.

I'm taking legal action, so I hope as part of that, I'll be able to look at the report to determine exactly why I failed.

Aren't the analog polygraph less accurate than the computer ones.  The day after I failed the analog test, I took one on a computer and passed after slightly modifying the questions. The computer one did have two additional sensors.
  
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