Normal Topic Said i failed the poly, but i told the truth I thought (Read 6972 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box kawirider637
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Said i failed the poly, but i told the truth I thought
Jun 11th, 2015 at 5:49pm
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Had a poly today with accusations that i stole an Ipad out of a coworkers vehicle.  Now to make a long story short, this coworker accused me of doing this but never told a supervisor.  after a week of harassment from him accusing me, I went to a supervisor and explained everything telling them that he is accusing me of this and something needs to be done.  This supposed incident took place 8 months ago and were just now getting through with the poly.  The coworker said he had 2 witnesses who said they saw me using an ipad but when they asked the coworker for the names of those individuals, he told them he rather not say. Hm.....last i heard, he wanted the case to be dropped and i believe it is because there is no validity to what he is claiming.  now to today; i took the polygraph today...the questions were, did you take the ipad out of this person's car, have you ever lied to get out of trouble, did you take the ipad out of this person's car that day, and have you ever lied to a supervisor prior to jan 2014. i did 4 separate series of these same questions and then the post interview came and he showed me only one of the results which was the question about did you take the ipad out of this person's vehicle.  it had a spike in the chart and had a -1 number on top of it. that was the only result he showed me was 2 times on the 4 series of tests that it had a spike and a -1....he did not show me the other two results. im wondering does this sound really bad to you guys? and also...the -1 number near the spike on the chart..is that an indication of something? is it good or bad or....any help is appreciated
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Said i failed the poly, but i told the truth I thought
Reply #1 - Jun 11th, 2015 at 5:56pm
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Did the polygraph operator accuse you of deception?
  

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Re: Said i failed the poly, but i told the truth I thought
Reply #2 - Jun 11th, 2015 at 6:24pm
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kawirider637, I would be happy to conduct an independent review of your polygraph "test" free of charge.

I'll need the polygraph charts, raw data, complete video, etc. Your polygraph operator should know exactly what's required.

I'm also interested if EPPA applies here, as might be the case if the iPad in question is company property, but that's a secondary issue.

My contact info can be found at www.polygraphman.com.

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
Full Member, American Polygraph Association
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Evan S
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Re: Said i failed the poly, but i told the truth I thought
Reply #3 - Jun 11th, 2015 at 8:24pm
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Dan:

Thank you for providing a free and independent review of another polygrapher's data.

I thought only the test questions and four-channel charts are needed for QC (according to Cleve Backster's ideas on polygraph QC).  So what is the purpose of the video?

Regards, Evan
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
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Re: Said i failed the poly, but i told the truth I thought
Reply #4 - Jun 11th, 2015 at 8:53pm
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Evan, let me first say that I was personally taught by Cleve Backster and have great respect for him and his contributions.

The video tells a compelling story with regard to environmental factors, examiner competence, examinee suitability, and much more. The charts alone are merely one element to what is usually a very fragile process with lots of variables.

It's amazing in review situations how often the video is somehow unavailable. That's a bad sign.

By the way, Backster taught that any available recordings -- be they audio or video -- should be made part of the review process.
  
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Re: Said i failed the poly, but i told the truth I thought
Reply #5 - Jun 11th, 2015 at 9:09pm
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I called a couple of hours later to speak with him and ask if the test showed deception, no deception or inconclusive. he claims it showed deception. I called a friend that used to run the poly and he said ask him for a copy of the charts so i can review them...i called him back and asked him for a copy of the charts. he stated he would have to get with someone and ask if he could release the charts. then called me back and stated, he wasn't able to release the charts because its an open investigation....he asked me if prior to jan 14 have i ever lied in order to get out of trouble. i answered no because i thought he meant in my current job field.....not in my entire life, of course in my 27 years on this earth ive lied to get out of trouble...he asked prior to jan 14 have i lied to a supervisor...on my current career, no i have not but i probably have in the past when i was 16-17 years old on my first job or two of course...but i answered no because i thought he meant my current field....im a police officer...i feel like he directed me towards wrong answers....
  
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Re: Said i failed the poly, but i told the truth I thought
Reply #6 - Jun 11th, 2015 at 9:11pm
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also the ipad was not companies...it was a coworkers personal ipad..
  
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Re: Said i failed the poly, but i told the truth I thought
Reply #7 - Jun 11th, 2015 at 9:13pm
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eppa will not apply, police agency
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
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Re: Said i failed the poly, but i told the truth I thought
Reply #8 - Jun 12th, 2015 at 12:25pm
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kawirider637, what you describe is good ol' fashion "black magic" polygraph -- just the way the cops like it.

Ya gotta fight, kid. Get a good lawyer, obtain help from your union, and maybe consider taking a private polygraph exam with a credentialed operator.

Here's a bit of irony... The polygraph industry apologists often compare polygraph accuracy to that of certain medical tests. (Absurd, I know, but let that go for now.)

Can you imagine a doctor or hospital refusing to release the complete results of a medical test for a second opinion because it was part of the patient's ongoing treatment?

Thus, in kawirider's case, it appears Doug Williams is right. The polygraph "test" is nothing more than a psychological billy club.

That bullshit has to change.

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
Full Member, American Polygraph Association
Certified PCSOT Examiner
Candidate for APA President-Elect
  
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Re: Said i failed the poly, but i told the truth I thought
Reply #9 - Jun 12th, 2015 at 5:20pm
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Anyone have recommendations? I have been with my agency for 3 years....and it seems like its the time to head hunt police officers for NO reason in this dept. I walked out of the "failed" polygraph "test" room still having my job...and i go back to work tonight after my two days off so...im still employed and i have not heard anything as of today. Whenever the poly guy was done, the inv. came in and said....well why are you lying...i said im not lying..i told the God honest truth, I do not know what else you guys want from me.....he kept trying to get me to say i did something! Then he finally got tired of asking same question and said alright, im going to write my report and you may hear from us you may not....and i was free to go......
  
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