Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13 ... 15 ReplyAdd Poll Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke (Read 108168 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Joe McCarthy
God Member
*****
Offline


Tiocfaidh ár lá

Posts: 526
Location: The Shroud of The Foggy Dew
Joined: Mar 25th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #150 - Feb 25th, 2016 at 7:20am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Ex Member wrote on Feb 25th, 2016 at 7:10am:
Actually, they are more like snarky comments than attacks. I don't know the rules of the APA, but many organizations frown upon such things as referring to someone's religion, sexual preferences...etc.



Yea but unless it is libelous or slanderous, any organization leave the door open to potential liability.  Stifling critical truthful speech, or opinion that is not libelous or slanderous, is potential anticompetitive behavior.  The only thing in the Ethics bylaws that he has to worry about is bringing the APA, or the industry into discredit and slander and libel.  He walks a fine line with brings the industry into discredit.  I do wish he would be more careful.

But again, I don't remember me seeing him bring anyones sexual preference or religion into play.  where did that happen, I missed that?
  

Joe
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Joe McCarthy
God Member
*****
Offline


Tiocfaidh ár lá

Posts: 526
Location: The Shroud of The Foggy Dew
Joined: Mar 25th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #151 - Feb 25th, 2016 at 7:25am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I do also hope, if he thinks of joining the NPA, he does so with the intention on playing nice.  We have just put down one person who wanted to bring trouble to a peaceful organization.  That was stressful enough.  

I don't need an insurgent messing up a good thing with this crap
  

Joe
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Ex Member
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 710
Joined: Dec 9th, 2012
Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #152 - Feb 25th, 2016 at 7:33am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
There was nothing about sexual preferences, only comments about being a pastor etc. I don't want you to get the wrong impression. I take back the word "attack" and replace it with "refer to."
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Joe McCarthy
God Member
*****
Offline


Tiocfaidh ár lá

Posts: 526
Location: The Shroud of The Foggy Dew
Joined: Mar 25th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #153 - Feb 25th, 2016 at 8:03am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
ah, that is just a masshole thing.  a tactic to get under someones skin and provoke a response.  Kinda like the believing in heaven, unicorns, and jesus things he loves to use; and has used with me once.

Some people think of that stuff as attacks, its just our way to try to provoke a response.  There are special classes for that where we come from  lol.

  

Joe
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #154 - Feb 25th, 2016 at 1:32pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Ark, the polygraph indu$try has run roughshod over too many people for far too long. Meaningful change is needed, and should come from within.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Joe McCarthy
God Member
*****
Offline


Tiocfaidh ár lá

Posts: 526
Location: The Shroud of The Foggy Dew
Joined: Mar 25th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #155 - Feb 25th, 2016 at 4:14pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
It's like talking to a wall
  

fuck_it.jpg ( 59 KB | Downloads )
fuck_it.jpg

Joe
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #156 - Feb 25th, 2016 at 5:28pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Joe, I've been an APA member since 2004. I have yet to see an article -- or hear of any seminar lecture -- that deals with polygraph victimization in a substantive way.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Ex Member
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 710
Joined: Dec 9th, 2012
Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #157 - Feb 25th, 2016 at 6:30pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Dan Mangan wrote on Feb 25th, 2016 at 5:28pm:
I have yet to see an article -- or hear of any seminar lecture -- that deals with polygraph victimization in a substantive way.

Really? That does surprise me.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Wandersmann
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 228
Joined: Jun 2nd, 2015
Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #158 - Feb 25th, 2016 at 6:51pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Dan Mangan wrote on Feb 25th, 2016 at 1:32pm:
Ark, the polygraph indu$try has run roughshod over too many people for far too long. Meaningful change is needed, and should come from within. 
                   


I think there are two levels to this abuse.  On the private side, it's all about money.  On the government side it's more about empire building and power.  

I think if the government admitted the polygraph was fallible, they could rest on their laurels that it is 80% effective, or whatever they claim and justify more money be spent on follow-up investigation for the 20% that fail.  Instead of terminating these applicants or on-board personnel, they could milk more money out of the system with follow-up polygraphs and BI's.  

I believe they are afraid that if they admit less than perfect accuracy their cash cow might be taken away.  Also, I think many of the law enforcement polygraphers are just thugs or incompetent investigators who enjoy ruining anybody's life, guilty or innocent.  Why work your tail off to prove a case when you can get credit and incentive awards by successfully condemning someone by only analyzing a chart and writing up a half-assed interview report. 
« Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2016 at 7:08pm by Wandersmann »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #159 - Feb 25th, 2016 at 9:03pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Wandersmann, the (in)fallibility issue is the crux of the matter. For fifteen (15) years, the APA peddled the myth of 98.6% accuracy. In my humble opinion, their capricious exuberance screwed up a lot of lives. Now it's time for the APA to do the right thing. Recognizing polygraph victimization would be a reasonable first step, followed by a model policy for a test-taker bill of rights.
« Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2016 at 9:46pm by Dan Mangan »  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Wandersmann
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 228
Joined: Jun 2nd, 2015
Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #160 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 6:39pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Dan Mangan wrote on Feb 25th, 2016 at 9:03pm:
Wandersmann, the (in)fallibility issue is the crux of the matter. For fifteen (15) years, the APA peddled the myth of 98.6% accuracy. In my humble opinion, their capricious exuberance screwed up a lot of lives. Now it's time for the APA to do the right thing. Recognizing polygraph victimization would be a reasonable first step, followed by a model policy for a test-taker bill of rights. 
                   



Agreed Dan.  Even if 98.6 % accuracy is true, that still means that they acknowledge that 1.4 innocent people may have their lives unjustly ruined.  That figure is too high.  I've been taught my entire life that, "rather 1,000 guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison".   Pro-polygraphers would argue that as long as no one goes to prison, no harm, no foul.  When our founding fathers wrote the Constitution and the laws, however, the only significant way to deny a person "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" was to put a person in jail.  Today, people's livelihoods, and consequently life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, can be much more easily and arbitrarily lost due to subjective whims, such as polygraph condemnation.  Ruining a person's reputation and ability to earn a living due to this pseudo-science is the most outrageous evil being conducted by our government.  I am confidant that sooner or later people will figure this out and the entire industry might be scrapped.  The only hope for polygraph supporters, as I see it, is to use this instrument strictly as an investigative tool as currently described by our top-level bureaucrats when they lie to Congress on this issue.  If deception is indicated then focus additional background investigation on the area of possible deception.  If no further negative information is determined, no further adverse action should be taken. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #161 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 7:11pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Well put, Wandersmann. But the hell of it is that polygraph "testing" accuracy is disturbingly far below the APA's seemingly immortal claim of 98.6%. Screening exams for LE/gov/PCSOT applications are very close to coin-flip odds, with specific-issue polygraph "tests" usually being about 60%-70% accurate, in my opinion -- as well as that of a significant number of notable polygraph critics. That's why (at least in part) consumer protection is long overdue. Yet, the profession-leading APA remains essentially mute on the issue. Why? Polygraph is primarily about power, control and MONEY.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Ex Member
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 710
Joined: Dec 9th, 2012
Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #162 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 7:14pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Wandersmann wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 6:39pm:
I've been taught my entire life that, "rather 1,000 guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison".   

You are referring to Blackstone's Formulation:

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Sir William Blackstone 1765
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Ex Member
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 710
Joined: Dec 9th, 2012
Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #163 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 7:24pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Dan, I respect you for your efforts to keep the consumer and the public from falling victim to polygraph abuse.

That being said, do you see any utility in the polygraph at all? If not, why bother being a member of the APA?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #164 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 7:29pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Indeed, Ark, polygraph has great utility -- just like VSA.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13 ... 15
ReplyAdd Poll Send TopicPrint
American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X