Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15] 16  ReplyAdd Poll Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread (Read 103256 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box xenonman
God Member
Banned
*****
Offline


May sarin, ricin, and
variola major befall
Langley

Posts: 680
Location: WI   USA
Joined: Dec 14th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread
Reply #210 - Apr 10th, 2016 at 9:59pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
The risks to one's life and liberty do indeed appear considerable! Sad
  

What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security
and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac?   A great beginning!

The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
Back to top
YouTube  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6051
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Recent Discussion of Doug Williams' Case on Reddit
Reply #211 - Aug 21st, 2016 at 7:34am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
A user of the link-sharing site Reddit recently posted the link to the Bloomberg video report on Doug Williams' plight. The post presently has 221 comments and may be of interest to AntiPolygraph.org readers:

https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/4yhuuo/til_douglas_williams_an_a...
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6051
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread
Reply #212 - Dec 8th, 2016 at 2:35pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
On 21 November 2016, Doug Williams filed a pro se motion to amend the terms of his supervised release so as to allow him to engage in polygraph-related activity to the extent that it is not "intended or part of a scheme to defraud the United States or tamper with witnesses."

Williams' motion may be downloaded here:

https://antipolygraph.org/litigation/doug-williams/doug-williams-motion-for-modi...

I think his motion is reasonable and should be granted.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Aunty Agony
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 140
Joined: Aug 15th, 2011
Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread
Reply #213 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 12:14am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I agree that his motion is reasonable and should be granted.

However the weakest branch of Williams's argument is the assertion that his disclaimer ("...I will not give you a practice test if you tell me you plan to lie...") is "sufficient to prevent his involvement in any alleged scheme to defraud the Government or the tampering with any witness". The facts in evidence prove that this is not true. The disclaimer was on display and in effect when Doug was entrapped into violating its provisions.

Actually, the fact that he was so badly entrapped should be sufficient to deter any further violations. He set up a rule to protect himself and came to grief only from not following it. He won't do that again.

If Doug gets a chance to support this motion with oral argument, perhaps he should lean on the idea that he takes the appropriate lesson from his conviction and sentence. Justice department functionaries love to hear how their work straightens people out.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Wandersmann
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 228
Joined: Jun 2nd, 2015
Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread
Reply #214 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 5:32am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
George W. Maschke wrote on Dec 8th, 2016 at 2:35pm:
I think his motion is reasonable and should be granted.


There are huge First Amendment issues in Doug's favor.  The fact that he's already published a book on this matter is important.  Journalists have gotten away with espionage because of First Amendment protection, not that I'm equating Doug to anything bad.   I think the government goons painted themselves into a corner with their entrapment.  As I recall it was stipulated in the trial or some other legal proceeding that teaching about the evils of the polygraph and the specifics of the junk science is legal.  For them to continue to suppress his efforts to speak simple truth would help bring to light what a bunch of Stalinist style thugs these polypunks really are.  I think this case may eventually help bring them down.  Doug is truly a political prisoner.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Doug Williams
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 284
Joined: Feb 15th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread
Reply #215 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 8:53am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
George, thanks for your support and I hope the judge agrees with you that my request is reasonable and should be granted.
  

I have been fighting the thugs and charlatans in the polygraph industry for forty years.  I tell about my crusade against the insidious Orwellian polygraph industry in my book FALSE CONFESSIONS - THE TRUE STORY OF DOUG WILLIAMS' CRUSADE AGAINST THE ORWELLIAN POLYGRAPH INDUSTRY.  Please visit my website POLYGRAPH.COM and follow me on TWITTER @DougWilliams_PG


Doug Williams
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6051
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread
Reply #216 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 9:48am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Aunty Agony wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 12:14am:
However the weakest branch of Williams's argument is the assertion that his disclaimer ("...I will not give you a practice test if you tell me you plan to lie...") is "sufficient to prevent his involvement in any alleged scheme to defraud the Government or the tampering with any witness". The facts in evidence prove that this is not true. The disclaimer was on display and in effect when Doug was entrapped into violating its provisions.


Doug added this disclaimer after the Operation Lie Busters raid on his office and home. This is a point that the prosecution raised on the second day of Doug's trial:

Quote:
SA Robbins testified that after the 21 February 2013 raid, Williams made changes to his website, including removal of the claim that he could teach a person to pass the polygraph “lying or not” and the addition of a “terms of service” statement clarifying that he would not train anyone who told him that they intended to lie, and that any in-person training customer who made such a statement would forfeit the fee and not receive training.
« Last Edit: Dec 9th, 2016 at 10:12am by George W. Maschke »  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Aunty Agony
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 140
Joined: Aug 15th, 2011
Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread
Reply #217 - Dec 9th, 2016 at 3:04pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
George W. Maschke wrote on Dec 9th, 2016 at 9:48am:
Doug added this disclaimer after the Operation Lie Busters raid on his office and home. This is a point that the prosecution raised on the second day of Doug's trial:

My mistake, I missed that.

In that case, the argument is not weak at all. It is quite in line with what any DOJ likes to see.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6051
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread
Reply #218 - Feb 19th, 2017 at 5:09am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
On 10 February 2017, the U.S. Department of Justice filed a brief in opposition to Doug Williams' motion that he be allowed to engage in polygraph-related activities during his upcoming period of supervised release:

https://antipolygraph.org/litigation/doug-williams/doug-williams-united-states-o...

As noted on the blog, the Department of Justice effectively concedes that polygraph countermeasures are effective.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Doug Williams
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 284
Joined: Feb 15th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread
Reply #219 - Feb 20th, 2017 at 1:05am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
As Dr. Maschke correctly states, this marks the first time that the government has admitted that I can teach a person to pass the polygraph test regardless of whether they are telling the truth  or lying.  I have said for almost forty years that if I can teach a person to control every tracing on the polygraph chart and ALWAYS pass, nervous or not, lying or not, no matter what, that is prima facie evidence that the polygraph is not a "lie detector".  It defies logic that the government continues to use the polygraph while at the same time admitting it is worthless.  I have much more to say in my reply to the government which Dr. Maschke will post when it is filed.
  

I have been fighting the thugs and charlatans in the polygraph industry for forty years.  I tell about my crusade against the insidious Orwellian polygraph industry in my book FALSE CONFESSIONS - THE TRUE STORY OF DOUG WILLIAMS' CRUSADE AGAINST THE ORWELLIAN POLYGRAPH INDUSTRY.  Please visit my website POLYGRAPH.COM and follow me on TWITTER @DougWilliams_PG


Doug Williams
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Wandersmann
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 228
Joined: Jun 2nd, 2015
Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread
Reply #220 - Feb 20th, 2017 at 6:25pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Doug Williams wrote on Feb 20th, 2017 at 1:05am:
It defies logic that the government continues to use the polygraph while at the same time admitting it is worthless.


You are correct Doug.  It defies logic and anyone with half-a-brain can see not only the logic but the PROOF in the anti-polygraph message.  Our problem lies 100% with corruption.  Corrupt lobbyists, politicians, and bureaucrats.  Let's find one honest man or woman somewhere in authority to start turning things around. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Joe McCarthy
God Member
*****
Offline


Tiocfaidh ár lá

Posts: 526
Location: The Shroud of The Foggy Dew
Joined: Mar 25th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread
Reply #221 - Feb 21st, 2017 at 10:45am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Doug Williams wrote on Feb 20th, 2017 at 1:05am:
As Dr. Maschke correctly states, this marks the first time that the government has admitted that I can teach a person to pass the polygraph test regardless of whether they are telling the truth  or lying.  I have said for almost forty years that if I can teach a person to control every tracing on the polygraph chart and ALWAYS pass, nervous or not, lying or not, no matter what, that is prima facie evidence that the polygraph is not a "lie detector".  It defies logic that the government continues to use the polygraph while at the same time admitting it is worthless.  I have much more to say in my reply to the government which Dr. Maschke will post when it is filed.


Doug, and I say this with all due respect, the "ALWAYS pass" thing, come on.  They don't "ALWAYS" pass.

Now that being set aside.  I am glad that you are well, and you got out of a very difficult time in your life.  I take no joy in someone else's misery.

Actually, check that.  There are a few I would take pleasure in seeing miserable, you are not one of them.  We may disagree about a lot, but you've never taken things to a personal level with me. 
  

Joe
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Doug Williams
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 284
Joined: Feb 15th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread
Reply #222 - Feb 22nd, 2017 at 4:51am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Wandersmann wrote on Feb 20th, 2017 at 6:25pm:
You are correct Doug.  It defies logic and anyone with half-a-brain can see not only the logic but the PROOF in the anti-polygraph message.  Our problem lies 100% with corruption.  Corrupt lobbyists, politicians, and bureaucrats.  Let's find one honest man or woman somewhere in authority to start turning things around.


Yes, greed and corruption are at the root of the problem with the polygraph.  Perhaps a phone call and letter writing campaign to Pres. Trump would be effective.  I cannot believe he would allow this to continue if he was made aware of the waste, fraud and abuse in the government polygraph program.
  

I have been fighting the thugs and charlatans in the polygraph industry for forty years.  I tell about my crusade against the insidious Orwellian polygraph industry in my book FALSE CONFESSIONS - THE TRUE STORY OF DOUG WILLIAMS' CRUSADE AGAINST THE ORWELLIAN POLYGRAPH INDUSTRY.  Please visit my website POLYGRAPH.COM and follow me on TWITTER @DougWilliams_PG


Doug Williams
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6051
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread
Reply #223 - Feb 22nd, 2017 at 1:48pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
On 21 February 2017, Doug Williams filed a reply to the U.S. government's opposition to his motion that he be allowed to engage in polygraph-related activities during his upcoming period of supervised release:

https://antipolygraph.org/litigation/doug-williams/doug-williams-reply-to-govern...

As noted on the blog, Williams argues forcefully (and, I hope, effectively) why his freedom of speech should not be curtailed.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Doug Williams
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 284
Joined: Feb 15th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread
Reply #224 - Feb 22nd, 2017 at 6:24pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Joe McCarthy wrote on Feb 21st, 2017 at 10:45am:
Doug Williams wrote on Feb 20th, 2017 at 1:05am:
As Dr. Maschke correctly states, this marks the first time that the government has admitted that I can teach a person to pass the polygraph test regardless of whether they are telling the truth  or lying.  I have said for almost forty years that if I can teach a person to control every tracing on the polygraph chart and ALWAYS pass, nervous or not, lying or not, no matter what, that is prima facie evidence that the polygraph is not a "lie detector".  It defies logic that the government continues to use the polygraph while at the same time admitting it is worthless.  I have much more to say in my reply to the government which Dr. Maschke will post when it is filed.


Doug, and I say this with all due respect, the "ALWAYS pass" thing, come on.  They don't "ALWAYS" pass.

Now that being set aside.  I am glad that you are well, and you got out of a very difficult time in your life.  I take no joy in someone else's misery.

Actually, check that.  There are a few I would take pleasure in seeing miserable, you are not one of them.  We may disagree about a lot, but you've never taken things to a personal level with me. 


You are quite correct Joe, they don't ALWAYS pass - not because they didn't produce a perfect "truthful" chart, but because polygraph operators often disregard the fact that the person did in fact produce a chart that should be scored as "NO DECEPTION INDICATED".  It is an unfortunate fact that all too often polygraph operators call a person deceptive and "fail" them even though it is obvious from the chart tracings that they had told the truth - or at least what passes for the truth on the polygraph.  But I can teach a person to do what they need to do to ALWAYS produce a "truthful" chart.  It is very simple to teach a person to produce a reaction on the control questions and show no reaction on the relevant questions, but you are right, I cannot guarantee them that the polygraph operator will accurately report what he/she sees on the chart.  I have taught thousands of people to "pass" the test and for the past 10 years I have used the AXCITON computerized polygraph instrument and in the last several years have used the scoring software which ALWAYS shows a reading of NO DECEPTION INDICATED.
  

I have been fighting the thugs and charlatans in the polygraph industry for forty years.  I tell about my crusade against the insidious Orwellian polygraph industry in my book FALSE CONFESSIONS - THE TRUE STORY OF DOUG WILLIAMS' CRUSADE AGAINST THE ORWELLIAN POLYGRAPH INDUSTRY.  Please visit my website POLYGRAPH.COM and follow me on TWITTER @DougWilliams_PG


Doug Williams
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15] 16 
ReplyAdd Poll Send TopicPrint
Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X