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AntiPolygraph.org Message Board › Polygraph and CVSA Forums › Polygraph Policy › Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread

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Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread (Read 131987 times)

quickfix Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 368 Joined: Jan 15^th, 2006	Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread Reply #150 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 6:49pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	George W. Maschke wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 5:44am: "there are no identifiable victims in these offenses." the same rationalization applied for those engaging in prostitution.


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Aunty Agony Very Senior User Offline Posts: 143 Joined: Aug 15^th, 2011	Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread Reply #151 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 8:00pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	quickfix wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 6:49pm: George W. Maschke wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 5:44am: "there are no identifiable victims in these offenses." the same rationalization applied for those engaging in prostitution. I don't understand. Are you saying that a polygrapher is like a whore? Aunty finds the comparison invidious: When a whore does it to you, you enjoy it. -Aunty Agony.


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quickfix Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 368 Joined: Jan 15^th, 2006	Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread Reply #152 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 8:37pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Aunty Agony wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 8:00pm: I don't understand. Are you saying that a polygrapher is like a whore? Aunty finds the comparison invidious: When a whore does it to you, you enjoy it. -Aunty Agony. Allow me to make it less indivious and more perspicuous: Doug's lawyer calls his crime victimless; defense lawyers call prostitution a victimless crime. Doug committed a crime. The government is the victim. The spouses of those who use the services of prostitutes are victims of prostitution, particular those who contract STDs. That's the comparison; not whether Doug is a whore or polygraphers are whores.


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread Reply #153 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 10:05pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I have been informed by a friend of AntiPolygraph.org who attended today's hearing that Doug Williams has been sentenced to 20 24 months in prison, where he is to report no later than 30 October 2015. He is to remain free on bond pending his reporting date.
	« Last Edit: Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 10:54pm by George W. Maschke »
	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread Reply #154 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 10:19pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	A Department of Justice press release states that the sentence was "two years": Quote: http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/owner-polygraphcom-sentenced-two-years-prison-trai... Department of Justice Office of Public Affairs FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Tuesday, September 22, 2015 Owner of Polygraph.com Sentenced to Two Years in Prison for Training Customers to Lie A former Oklahoma City law enforcement officer and the owner of Polygraph.com has been sentenced to two years in prison for training customers to lie and conceal crimes and other misconduct during polygraph examinations. Assistant Attorney General Leslie R. Caldwell of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division, Assistant Commissioner Matthew Klein of U.S. Customs and Border Protection’s Office of Internal Affairs and Special Agent in Charge Scott L. Cruse of the FBI’s Oklahoma City Division made the announcement. Douglas G. Williams, 69, of Norman, Oklahoma, pleaded guilty on May 13, 2015, to two counts of mail fraud and three counts of witness tampering. Chief U.S. District Judge Vicki Miles-LaGrange of the Western District of Oklahoma imposed the sentence. According to admissions made in connection with his plea, Williams owned and operated Polygraph.com, an Internet-based business through which he trained people how to conceal misconduct and other disqualifying information when submitting to polygraph examinations in connection with federal employment suitability assessments, background investigations, internal agency investigations and other proceedings. In particular, Williams admitted that he trained an individual posing as a federal law enforcement officer to lie and conceal involvement in criminal activity from an internal agency investigation. Williams also admitted to training a second individual, posing as an applicant seeking federal employment, to lie and conceal crimes in a pre-employment polygraph examination. Williams also admitted to instructing the individuals to deny receiving his polygraph training. The investigation was conducted by U.S. Customs and Border Protection’s Office of Internal Affairs and the FBI’s Oklahoma City Division. The case was prosecuted by Trial Attorneys Heidi Boutros Gesch and Brian K. Kidd of the Criminal Division’s Public Integrity Section. 15-1156 Criminal Division Updated September 22, 2015

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Aunty Agony Very Senior User Offline Posts: 143 Joined: Aug 15^th, 2011	Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread Reply #155 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 10:43pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	quickfix wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 8:37pm: The spouses of those who use the services of prostitutes are victims of prostitution, particular those who contract STDs. That's the comparison Are you sure? Aunty is having trouble picturing how one would contract a STD from a polygraph machine. -Aunty Agony.


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread Reply #156 - Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 11:01pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	quickfix wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 6:49pm: George W. Maschke wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2015 at 5:44am: "there are no identifiable victims in these offenses." the same rationalization applied for those engaging in prostitution. As I noted in my earlier post, the conclusion that "there are no identifiable victims in these offenses" is not that of Doug Williams or his attorney, but that of the U.S. Probation Officer who was assigned the case.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread Reply #157 - Sep 23^rd, 2015 at 3:31pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	While the federal government is getting its pound of flesh from its prosecution of Doug Williams, the victory is unlikely to have much effect -- if any -- on containing polygraph countermeasures. Beyond that, I predict that Doug will come roaring back in a scant two years and enjoy a new level of fame, popularity and financial success that will be orders of magnitude greater than anything he has achieved thus far. Ironically, the prison sentence imposed on Williams accords him a kind of martyr status, providing a marketable cachet that will help propel Doug to new heights of recognition and accomplishment.


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread Reply #158 - Sep 23^rd, 2015 at 7:50pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	A report on yesterday's sentencing hearing by Overland Park, Kansas attorney David C. Graham, who was in attendance, is now online here: https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2015/09/23/doug-williams-sentenced-to-two-years-i...

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Doug Williams Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 284 Joined: Feb 15^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread Reply #159 - Sep 23^rd, 2015 at 8:13pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Dan Mangan wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2015 at 3:31pm: While the federal government is getting its pound of flesh from its prosecution of Doug Williams, the victory is unlikely to have much effect -- if any -- on containing polygraph countermeasures. Beyond that, I predict that Doug will come roaring back in a scant two years and enjoy a new level of fame, popularity and financial success that will be orders of magnitude greater than anything he has achieved thus far. Ironically, the prison sentence imposed on Williams accords him a kind of martyr status, providing a marketable cachet that will help propel Doug to new heights of recognition and accomplishment. Dan thank you for those kind and encouraging words. From your lips to God's ears! And much of what you have predicted is already happening!

	I have been fighting the thugs and charlatans in the polygraph industry for forty years. I tell about my crusade against the insidious Orwellian polygraph industry in my book FALSE CONFESSIONS - THE TRUE STORY OF DOUG WILLIAMS' CRUSADE AGAINST THE ORWELLIAN POLYGRAPH INDUSTRY. Please visit my website POLYGRAPH.COM and follow me on TWITTER @DougWilliams_PG Doug Williams
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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread Reply #160 - Sep 24^th, 2015 at 1:09am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Doug, I thought your book From Cop to Crusader: My fight against the dangerous myth of "lie detection" would make for a pretty good movie. But in view of your conviction and sentence, I believe your story now has the potential to be a great movie. Consider shopping for a reputable Hollywood agent who can help get your book adapted into a screenplay. America loves truth tellers, underdogs, and individuals with the balls to rage against the machine. Conversely, Americans usually harbor disdain for politically driven takedown agendas and government-sponsored witch hunts. On top of that, people generally have sympathy for victims -- especially those of the government's doing -- who have precious little recourse for a remedy to make them whole. Such is the case with polygraph. Bottom line: You have a blockbuster. With the right touch, the shock waves of that explosion will be felt far and wide, eclipsing anything you ever thought possible. Ironic, isn't it? The feds thought they were swatting a fly. Instead, they kicked a hornets nest.


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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread Reply #161 - Sep 24^th, 2015 at 1:33pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Dan Mangan wrote on Sep 24^th, 2015 at 1:09am: America loves truth tellers, underdogs, and individuals with the balls to rage against the machine. Conversely, Americans usually harbor disdain for politically driven takedown agendas and government-sponsored witch hunts. So true Dan, our government talks the talk but doesn't walk to the walk when it comes to liberty. They will come down hard on anyone who challenges their authority.


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someguyfromtheinternet Guest	Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread Reply #162 - Sep 24^th, 2015 at 2:35pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	A man goes to jail for teaching people how to protect themselves from a machine that can ruin their lives. A woman goes to jail for standing for marriage being between a man and a woman, which has always been the true definition of marriage. Police NOT going to jail for killing unarmed citizens. Politicians under fire for saying Muslim law should not run this country. Last I remember, "God" is on our currency, in our oath of office, in our pledge, and plastered above the bench in courtrooms across the country. This country is going to Hell on a scholarship. I'm starting to become ashamed to be an American. At some point in life, I see myself throwing in the towel and becoming a citizen of another country. Good riddance USA.


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread Reply #163 - Sep 24^th, 2015 at 3:38pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: A man goes to jail for teaching people how to protect themselves from a machine that can ruin their lives. A woman goes to jail for standing for marriage being between a man and a woman, which has always been the true definition of marriage. Police NOT going to jail for killing unarmed citizens. Politicians under fire for saying Muslim law should not run this country. Last I remember, "God" is on our currency, in our oath of office, in our pledge, and plastered above the bench in courtrooms across the country. This country is going to Hell on a scholarship. I'm starting to become ashamed to be an American. At some point in life, I see myself throwing in the towel and becoming a citizen of another country. Good riddance USA. I don't see any connection between Doug Williams' ordeal and the other grievances you enumerate (except, perhaps, police impunity). In any event, I think that neither the pseudoscience of polygraphy nor any religion should hold sway over public policy in America.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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quickfix Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 368 Joined: Jan 15^th, 2006	Re: Doug Williams Polygraph Trial Discussion Thread Reply #164 - Sep 24^th, 2015 at 6:34pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: I'm starting to become ashamed to be an American. At some point in life, I see myself throwing in the towel and becoming a citizen of another country. Good riddance USA. You don't like it? Leave. Move to North Korea or Iran. Maybe you'll like it there better.


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