Normal Topic Having lived it.... (Read 5596 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box 1st4th5thand6th
User
**
Offline



Posts: 28
Joined: Sep 13th, 2014
Having lived it....
Sep 14th, 2014 at 12:18am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Having lived through the polygraph experience (> 1) I would like to say that everything and  I mean everything Mr. Mashke / Mr. Williams / Professor Lykken have said in their books are 1000% accurate. 
..In fact... I'm of the opinion, that these guys are being quite kind in their assessments and presenting it to the public....politely....  
I consider myself a pretty open minded person.  I went in there with an honest heart and an open mind.  Yes, I had the heard horror stories (I had skimmed a couple of  books) and I was somewhat in disbelief.  I guess I had a naive "hope" that it wasn't true and that my experience would be "good".... 
WOW was I FLOORED!! 
I'm humiliated and totally ashamed to admit this... WHAT AN IDIOT I WAS!   
Perhaps the sickest part of all of this...and I don't recall the books really emphasizing this point.. ... All of the people who administer a polygraph (for the govt) have taken an oath of office to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States!... 
The people who oversee these letter agencies have also taken this oath as have our congressman, senators, judiciary branch and president.   

How in the name of god could ANYONE swear an oath to the constitution in one breath and then administer these tests in another!  Totally beyond my comprehension!!..  SICKENING absolutely sickening...
     
I am further of the opinion having had time to digest the whole fiasco, that this process has two silent criteria.  1) the person taking it has no clue what his constitutional rights are and will therefore not know how or why/when to invoke them....or if they are even being violated... but if you do know!  MAN WHAT A SHOCK!   and 2) if the person is not gullible and understands the whole thing is an "act" they have no chance at passing.  meaning if you're and educated American, i.e one who understands amendments 1,4,5,6 and understands that the polygraph doesn't work... the person would have to automatically  be disqualified!  How could they possibly qualify you... If they can't con you..you;re out!!  Thank god for anti-discrimination laws huh!  Wink  
If this is true then is the government really hiring it's best or it's brightest?   or just the ones that don't understand their constitutional rights and believe the bluff of the polygraph?   

Further, I'm also of the opinion,  our country has a bigger problem than just this polygraph BS... our judicial system is obviously picking and choosing which laws to enforce and clearly who they apply to...   
(Didn't the constitution use to be the supreme law of the land? It's still in effect in America isn't it? )  it is?   
Legal question number 1?   does signing a waiver form (which lets them turn on the polygraph)  grant a waiver to the govt polygrapher of his or her oath of office  ( To uphold and defend the constitution?)   

Legal question number 2... Does swearing an oath to uphold and defend the constitution grant the swearer the option to exempt themselves from it?   Does it allow them to deny/violate the constitutional rights of U.S Citizens?    Guess that's for a judge to decide huh? But obviously they don't do that anymore ..... !!! 

Everywhere you go..it gets sicker and sicker....     
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Doug Williams
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 284
Joined: Feb 15th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Having lived it....
Reply #1 - Sep 14th, 2014 at 1:18pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
1st4th5thand6th wrote on Sep 14th, 2014 at 12:18am:
Having lived through the polygraph experience (> 1) I would like to say that everything and  I mean everything Mr. Mashke / Mr. Williams / Professor Lykken have said in their books are 1000% accurate. 
..In fact... I'm of the opinion, that these guys are being quite kind in their assessments and presenting it to the public....politely....  
I consider myself a pretty open minded person.  I went in there with an honest heart and an open mind.  Yes, I had the heard horror stories (I had skimmed a couple of  books) and I was somewhat in disbelief.  I guess I had a naive "hope" that it wasn't true and that my experience would be "good".... 
WOW was I FLOORED!! 
I'm humiliated and totally ashamed to admit this... WHAT AN IDIOT I WAS!   
Perhaps the sickest part of all of this...and I don't recall the books really emphasizing this point.. ... All of the people who administer a polygraph (for the govt) have taken an oath of office to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States!... 
The people who oversee these letter agencies have also taken this oath as have our congressman, senators, judiciary branch and president.   

How in the name of god could ANYONE swear an oath to the constitution in one breath and then administer these tests in another!  Totally beyond my comprehension!!..  SICKENING absolutely sickening...
     
I am further of the opinion having had time to digest the whole fiasco, that this process has two silent criteria.  1) the person taking it has no clue what his constitutional rights are and will therefore not know how or why/when to invoke them....or if they are even being violated... but if you do know!  MAN WHAT A SHOCK!   and 2) if the person is not gullible and understands the whole thing is an "act" they have no chance at passing.  meaning if you're and educated American, i.e one who understands amendments 1,4,5,6 and understands that the polygraph doesn't work... the person would have to automatically  be disqualified!  How could they possibly qualify you... If they can't con you..you;re out!!  Thank god for anti-discrimination laws huh!  Wink  
If this is true then is the government really hiring it's best or it's brightest?   or just the ones that don't understand their constitutional rights and believe the bluff of the polygraph?  

Further, I'm also of the opinion,  our country has a bigger problem than just this polygraph BS... our judicial system is obviously picking and choosing which laws to enforce and clearly who they apply to...   
(Didn't the constitution use to be the supreme law of the land? It's still in effect in America isn't it? )  it is?   
Legal question number 1?   does signing a waiver form (which lets them turn on the polygraph)  grant a waiver to the govt polygrapher of his or her oath of office  ( To uphold and defend the constitution?)   

Legal question number 2... Does swearing an oath to uphold and defend the constitution grant the swearer the option to exempt themselves from it?   Does it allow them to deny/violate the constitutional rights of U.S Citizens?    Guess that's for a judge to decide huh? But obviously they don't do that anymore ..... !!! 

Everywhere you go..it gets sicker and sicker....     



I have heard variations on this story thousands of times over the past 35 years.  I'm sorry to hear yours, but perhaps you can take some comfort in the fact that this is what drives me to continue the fight against those who abuse people with this insidious Orwellian instrument of torture incorrectly referred to as a "lie detector".  Angry
  

I have been fighting the thugs and charlatans in the polygraph industry for forty years.  I tell about my crusade against the insidious Orwellian polygraph industry in my book FALSE CONFESSIONS - THE TRUE STORY OF DOUG WILLIAMS' CRUSADE AGAINST THE ORWELLIAN POLYGRAPH INDUSTRY.  Please visit my website POLYGRAPH.COM and follow me on TWITTER @DougWilliams_PG


Doug Williams
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box 1st4th5thand6th
User
**
Offline



Posts: 28
Joined: Sep 13th, 2014
Re: Having lived it....
Reply #2 - Sep 23rd, 2014 at 2:26am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Mr. Williams, thank you for your reply.  I've read your book...and I must say I admire your courage, your conviction and your fortitude.  In my mind the only crime you've committed is articulating the blatantly obvious to morons who don't want to hear it!...   I was wondering if you could help me understand something... In my previous post I mentioned that I believe there is a silent discrimination against polygraph candidates who understand that the whole process is a con and a farce...  Do I have this right?  or am I just imagining this?  I would think there would have to be....  because if you understand this, what good is hooking you up to the machine?  Also if this is true...doesn't it really imply that a selection criteria for these polygraph jobs is "ignorance" and "gullibility"???    Mr. Mashke, if your available,  I would like your opinion as well....
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6225
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Having lived it....
Reply #3 - Sep 23rd, 2014 at 5:23am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
1st4th5thand6th,

Discrimination against polygraph examinees who understand that the whole process is a con and a farce is not really "silent." It's standard operating procedure.

Polygraph operators routinely ask examinees what they know about polygraphy during the pre-test phase. They may also query examinees regarding what online research they've done.

If an examinee volunteers that she is familiar with polygraph procedure and understands its lack of scientific underpinnings, or has read material from AntiPolygraph.org or Polygraph.com, she is very likely going to be accused of deception and/or countermeasure use.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box 1st4th5thand6th
User
**
Offline



Posts: 28
Joined: Sep 13th, 2014
Re: Having lived it....
Reply #4 - Sep 23rd, 2014 at 10:50am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Thanks for clarifying this George.  So a candidate who has a clean background, is well educated, including basic factual knowledge about the polygraph along with plain common sense that it doesn't work, has never worked and never will work.... He/She will be labeled dishonest, liar, countermeasures etc....  again by people who use a box that can't determine lies, dishonesty or countermeasures or any of that regardless.....This is almost comical! ....   

Further, to me, this means our governments top jobs are awarded to only those people who aren't smart enough to understand polygraph basics or are gullible enough to believe otherwise...at best,  Ignorance and gullibility are primary selection criteria!  ...or at worst  these people just pretend to go along with it...thereby actually deceiving the polygrapher.

And taxpayers keep paying for this!!  HAHAHAHAHAH
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6225
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Having lived it....
Reply #5 - Sep 23rd, 2014 at 11:04am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
What I expect is happening is that savvy applicants and employees who understand that polygraphy is a sham are concealing their knowledge from their polygraphers to avoid retaliation. As the saying goes, self-preservation is the first law of nature.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box 1st4th5thand6th
User
**
Offline



Posts: 28
Joined: Sep 13th, 2014
Re: Having lived it....
Reply #6 - Sep 23rd, 2014 at 11:29am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Right, so honest people who are upfront and fully disclose they are "educated" are rejected outright , but those who "conceal"  this knowledge  are passed.  So... lying is not allowed but concealing is....uh... ok Smiley 

I guess that box can spot liars, and people who use CM's  but not..."concealers"  huh?.  HAHAHAH (Sorry I'm giggling while I write this!)..... 

This is unreal!!!     I wonder if it's like a silent inside joke to those with the poly clearances..... the wink between members of the cleared fraternity...  
"Hey Harvey....passed again!  wink  Good job Bob! <wink>.... a comedian could have a field day with this!!!!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box 1st4th5thand6th
User
**
Offline



Posts: 28
Joined: Sep 13th, 2014
Re: Having lived it....
Reply #7 - Sep 23rd, 2014 at 11:35am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
In my original post I ask: Legal question number 1?   does signing a waiver form (which lets them turn on the polygraph)  grant a waiver to the govt polygrapher of his or her oath of office  ( To uphold and defend the constitution?)   ..... do you (George) or Mr. Williams have an opinion on this?      
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6225
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Having lived it....
Reply #8 - Sep 23rd, 2014 at 11:44am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
No doubt, there are many federal employees whose jobs require polygraph screening who know that it's junk science. And there are no doubt foreign spies working for the U.S. Government right now who breezed through their polygraphs using simple, effective, and undetectable countermeasures.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box poly fed
Guest


Re: Having lived it....
Reply #9 - Sep 23rd, 2014 at 12:46pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I'm a cleared U.S. federal employee who passed the polygraph using countermeasures.  And I lied.  When they asked if I was hiding something or if I committed a crime that I wasn't busted for, I told them "no".  A clear lie.  They are stupid to think I was going to sit there and tell them my dirty laundry, as if I was supposed to be scared of them or something. lol.  Passed with flying colors.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Having lived it....

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X