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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Polygraph Place Bulletin Board Private Forum (Read 57334 times)
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Re: Polygraph Place Bulletin Board Private Forum
Reply #15 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 5:27am
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My congrats to the person who gave up this treasure trove of information. It is providing many hours of entertaining reading. I am finding it hard to believe that none of our illustrious polygraph guru's haven't chimed in, or is this butt-whipping that this archive provides finally enough for them to say UNCLE. 

Best Regards
  

Theory into Reality !!
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George W. Maschke
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Skip Webb on the Vulnerability of Polygraphy to Countermeasures
Reply #16 - Jun 15th, 2013 at 5:39pm
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Here's another illuminating post by Skip Webb, found in the message thread "George Mashe" (sic), located in folder 10. On 9 March 2009, responding a suggestion that I should be criminally prosecuted for making information about polygraph countermeasures available to convicted sex offenders, Webb wrote (emphasis added):

Quote:
Trying to make the case that George is aiding and abetting an offender would be like saying that someone who went to the NASCAR driving school and then decided to drive the get away car in a bank robbery would cuase their driving instuctor to be a partner in the crime. If your logic held water, then all of the pilot instructors who trained the 911 pilots would be in jail right now.

George is not our problem. The fact that mental and physical countermeasures can negate the efficacy of our test is the problem. We either have to get really good at countering the CMs or we need to develop a test that circumvents CMS or makes them useless.

Most diagnostic tests can be defeated or countermeasured if one wants to skew or frustrate the procedure and the resulting diagnosis. Unfortunately some of our clients have a reason to do so.

I can assure you that when the draft was in effect, we had a number of people who faked or counter measured the hearing test and the eye test in an effort to get out of the draft. If there had been an internet back then, you can bet it would have been full of CM sites telling one how to do it. Even when I was drafted, people were told through the grape vine to put a bar of soap under their arm in an effort to elevate their blood pressure??????????

I know we like to vent our frustration on George but the reality is we are angry not so much with George as we are with the limitations of what we do and the ease with which it can be frustrated.

Frustration and anger, when properly directed can create innovation. We need to channel our frustration and anger into productive change.


In polygraph community jargon, I'd call that a "substantive admission."
  

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George W. Maschke
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PolygraphPlace Discussion of Public Relations
Reply #17 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 6:39am
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On 29 September 2008, Ralph Hilliard, the proprietor of PolygraphPlace.com, opened a message thread titled "We need a 'comments' voice. Any Volunteers?" It's in folder 13 of the archive (94 mb ZIP file). His idea was to orchestrate a commenting campaign on on-line newspaper articles about polygraphy:

Quote:
Hey Everybody,

Since I have been regularly scanning all the polygraph articles that land each day, there is a common theme of misinformation either in the article itself or in the comments that follow.

In one form or another, quotes and stories have become the reality to most in the public rather than facts.

For example, every single moment maschke gets a chance, his mantra is 'Consensus amongst scientists is that there is no basis in science for the CQ polygraph.'

Most regular folks repeat the usual...

How good could they be since they aren't allowed in court?

or as Repairman Jack responded to a recent online article....

Polgraphs - isn't the jury still out on their reliability?

That article is here if you want to read it:
http://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/news/3702525.Would_I_lie_to_you_/#commentsfo...

So what is my point? It is important to do the small things to advance a professional message with facts.

And at least one way would be to post positive and corrective information in the 'comments' areas at the end of all these articles.

It doesn't need to be an army. One person could help the collective profession by making it their mission to daily read the polygraph related articles and 1. Correct misinformation in the articles and 2. Post intelligent, fact based replies to naive commenters.

I have the motivation and energy to do this, but not the time. Its little things like this that could make a difference in public opinion in the long run, especially because authors tend to quote other authors and that is how the misinformation continues to spread.

I was going to put this in the newsletter, but why tip our hand to GM, who would probably be there like stink on shit to dig up a fight if he knew there was an actual plan. A Covert fighter would be a much better option...at least until he catches on and then we will at least be giving another opinion to the masses than just his.

Any Takers? Hmmm, not to put you on the spot Jim, but isn't this what you hoped to do at AP? I'd rather fight on neutral territory than on GM's ground.

------------------
Ralph Hilliard
PolygraphPlace Owner & Operator

Be sure to visit our new store for all things Polygraph Related
http://store.polygraphplace.com


The campaign evidently never got off the ground, but I did find this post by Don Krapohl of DoDPI/DACA/NCCA interesting:

Quote:
Folks:

Let me first say that the following is just my personal opinion, and should not be misconstrued as being an APA position nor necessarily especially wise counsel. It is simply how I've come to see our exchanges with George.

I have long held the view that we should not post on the AP site. I came to this conclusions from what I know about the facts on the ground. First, the site is a refuge for zealots, and as zealots they are immune to information that challenge their beliefs. They are impervious to facts, logic, data, or evidence. So we must first acknowledge that our contribution in that regard will not be useful. We have yet to convince any of them of the sins of their ways. Second, it seems apparent that the site owner thrives on the attention he receives when we post there. Far from being taken aback by our brilliantly crafted counterpoints, he derives gratification when people, anyone, acknowledge him. The more you post, the happier he gets. Third, when we hold a moritorium on posting, as you all did recently, the zealots end up feeding on each other. If they don't receive gratification from others, they do it to themselves (insert favorite joke here). This causes their postings be become more frenzied, more extreme, and ultimately to reveal to all the world how out of the mainstream their thinking is. And finally, the AP posters seem to have all the time in the world. Who here can post a response 24 hours a day? It is clear that we can't exhaust them because we have other work, truly important work, to get done.

It seems a more adaptive response to set up a separate site with pro and balanced information on polygraphy. It need not be like the AP site, where everyone with a keyboard can send whatever he wants. Rather, it could simply be an informational site that remains static except for updates by the administrator. I would argue that this should not be undertaken by the APA, since there is an assumption of bias. Also, many of the folks here are not APA members, and they should be able to assist in this effort.

Here are some of the potential benefits of this new site. One: it gets our message out. Two: it doesn't tie us down answering postings from radicals. Three: it might tie up the radicals on their site trying to respond to all of the good information on our site.

Regardless of whether this new site idea gets off the ground, let me repeat that our time spent posting on the AP site has come to naught and that we are better served by focusing on solutions instead of detractors. Let me just end with an open question: where are our energies best spent?

Don


(Very) long-time readers of AntiPolygraph.org may recall that after AntiPolygraph.org first went on-line on 18 September 2000, Krapohl registered the domain name antipolygraph.com, though he never set up a website at that address. The pro-polygraph website separate from the American Polygraph Association that he suggests in the above post also seems not to have been created.

Don, you opine that I and others are "impervious to facts, logic, data, or evidence." Why don't you try me? For starters, could you point out any factual errors that you believe exist in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector? I am, in fact, keenly interested in correcting anything that we may have gotten wrong.
« Last Edit: Jun 17th, 2013 at 8:19am by George W. Maschke »  

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Re: Polygraph Place Bulletin Board Private Forum
Reply #18 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 10:31pm
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George W. Maschke wrote on Jun 17th, 2013 at 6:39am:
Far from being taken aback by our brilliantly crafted counterpoints, 

Really now....can someone give me some examples of this brilliance?...Quickfix, care to chime in?
  
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Re: Polygraph Place Bulletin Board Private Forum
Reply #19 - Jun 17th, 2013 at 10:36pm
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George,

You have clearly won the intelligence war hands down.  These clowns don't know which way is up, what to say to whom, or when they will likely see it on this board. 

Your source is likewise masterful and appears to not to have compromised himself/herself and is likely posed to continue collecting and reporting the polygraph community's abysmal behavior and thought process...

Keep up the good work!
  
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Re: Polygraph Place Bulletin Board Private Forum
Reply #20 - Jun 18th, 2013 at 8:06am
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getrealalready,

Thank you for your kind words. We indeed owe a debt of gratitude to conscientious members of the polygraph community who, like Ex-Examiner, have made documents and information available to us over the years.

I invite any readers with information concerning polygraph policy or procedure that they believe should be made available to the public to do so. Ways to do this include attaching documents to a message board post (as Ex-Examiner did), e-mailing me, or sending me a letter by postal mail. Contributors who wish to remain anonymous can do so by accessing the site through a proxy network like Tor or by simply dropping a letter in the mail without a return address.
  

George W. Maschke
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Re: Polygraph Place Bulletin Board Private Forum
Reply #21 - Jun 18th, 2013 at 7:59pm
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The polygraph advocates have been conspicuously absent ... hmmmm  Wink


getrealalready wrote on Jun 17th, 2013 at 10:36pm:
George,

You have clearly won the intelligence war hands down.  These clowns don't know which way is up, what to say to whom, or when they will likely see it on this board. 

Your source is likewise masterful and appears to not to have compromised himself/herself and is likely posed to continue collecting and reporting the polygraph community's abysmal behavior and thought process...

Keep up the good work!

  

It is time to put a stop to this government sponsored sadism perpetrated by those who use this insidious Orwellian instrument of torture called the 'lie detector'!  Education is the most effective weapon I have to finally put a stop to the abusive practice of polygraph 'testing'.  Help me by educating yourself and others.  My book FROM COP TO CRUSADER: THE STORY OF MY FIGHT AGAINST THE DANGROUS MYTH OF "LIE DETECTION" is available on Amazon in e-book or paperback - please get this book and send it to as many people as you can - it literally destroys the myth of "lie detection"!  Doug Williams
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Re: Polygraph Place Bulletin Board Private Forum
Reply #22 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 3:11pm
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Sometimes, there just are no words.  LMAO

Karma, she can be a bitch.

Grabbing my "popcorn and soda" and watching the show.  I been waiting four long years for this.
  

Joe
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Re: Polygraph Place Bulletin Board Private Forum
Reply #23 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 5:36pm
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I don't know who these clowns hate the most - George or me.  I was the only one they had to hate from '79 to 2000 - and then George came along.  And then they had another one to hate.  I think we should have a contest.  The "GOOD GUY" prize goes to the one the polygraph con men hate the most!

I have always been proud of the fact that these jerks hate me so much - that's proof I am hurting them.  They have recently demonstrated just how much I am hurting them and how much they hate me. 


Joe McCarthy wrote on Jun 19th, 2013 at 3:11pm:
Sometimes, there just are no words.  LMAO

Karma, she can be a bitch.

Grabbing my "popcorn and soda" and watching the show.  I been waiting four long years for this.

« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2013 at 6:06pm by Doug Williams »  

It is time to put a stop to this government sponsored sadism perpetrated by those who use this insidious Orwellian instrument of torture called the 'lie detector'!  Education is the most effective weapon I have to finally put a stop to the abusive practice of polygraph 'testing'.  Help me by educating yourself and others.  My book FROM COP TO CRUSADER: THE STORY OF MY FIGHT AGAINST THE DANGROUS MYTH OF "LIE DETECTION" is available on Amazon in e-book or paperback - please get this book and send it to as many people as you can - it literally destroys the myth of "lie detection"!  Doug Williams
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Re: Polygraph Place Bulletin Board Private Forum
Reply #24 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 6:48pm
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Just like there is a guy in a white hat, there has to be a guy in a black hat.  But with all due respect, there are a lot of people who have come into my room for whom you should be refunding some money. 

Anyway, save the loving the hate for the others.  I am not here to love or hate you.  I am simply here to watch the show I know to be coming.
  

Joe
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Re: Polygraph Place Bulletin Board Private Forum
Reply #25 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 7:41pm
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The show is already here, and you clowns are leading the parade.  The stench of fear and paranoia is stifling (but amusing) - it exudes from the screen when I read all the pirated posts from POLYGRAPHPLACE. All you guys in the black hats really prove my contention that the "lie detector" is a myth when you think you are talking only to fellow charlatans! And what's worse, you all know it is a joke and you still claim it is a valid scientific method to detect deception.  Your hats are all very black indeed - as are your hearts!

Now, if someone else would grow a conscience like "EX POLYGRAPHER" and make all the posts from the APA public, we could really get an insight into the hearts and minds of the black hat gang of thugs and conmen called polygraphers.

And as for refunds - no one has asked for any.

I leave you to ponder the words of the man who invented your so-called "lie detector".

"The lie detector, in many places, is nothing more than a psychological third-degree aimed at extorting a confession as the old physical beatings were. At times I'm sorry I ever had any part in its development." 

polygraph pioneer
John A. Larson



Joe McCarthy wrote on Jun 19th, 2013 at 6:48pm:
Just like there is a guy in a white hat, there has to be a guy in a black hat.  But with all due respect, there are a lot of people who have come into my room for whom you should be refunding some money. 

Anyway, save the loving the hate for the others.  I am not here to love or hate you.  I am simply here to watch the show I know to be coming.

  

It is time to put a stop to this government sponsored sadism perpetrated by those who use this insidious Orwellian instrument of torture called the 'lie detector'!  Education is the most effective weapon I have to finally put a stop to the abusive practice of polygraph 'testing'.  Help me by educating yourself and others.  My book FROM COP TO CRUSADER: THE STORY OF MY FIGHT AGAINST THE DANGROUS MYTH OF "LIE DETECTION" is available on Amazon in e-book or paperback - please get this book and send it to as many people as you can - it literally destroys the myth of "lie detection"!  Doug Williams
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Re: Polygraph Place Bulletin Board Private Forum
Reply #26 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 8:13pm
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Doug, I have not attacked you personally and grouping me in with these ass clowns is just silliness, as I was attacked on those posts too. 

I do not fear you Doug, you may have an overinflated sense of ego here.   Out of all I have been through in the past four years, you think YOU are the person I should fear?  LMAO...... Ok, if you think you can make me miserable, take your best shot; go for it.

Like I said, I am not here to love you or hate you.  I am not even here to like you or tolerate your existence.  As a matter of fact I don't even hear your name but about once or maybe twice a year.  I am simply here to watch liars and hypocrites get exposed for what they are.

Save your hate for someone who cares that you hate them.  That energy is wasted on me.  You hating me is not even a blip on my radar screen.

Now why don't you get your Lincoln  Logs and some matches and go play insurance fraud.   Either that or go find a storm where a house can fall on you, because you are boring the hell out of me.

You seem the type to like ruby slippers
  

Joe
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Re: Polygraph Place Bulletin Board Private Forum
Reply #27 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 8:38pm
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Am I to assume then that the "liars and hypocrites" you refer to are the polygraph operators?  It would seem so since you said, "I was attacked on those posts too".  I guess I'll go back through them and see if I can identify you.


Joe McCarthy wrote on Jun 19th, 2013 at 8:13pm:
I am simply here to watch liars and hypocrites get exposed for what they are.


  

It is time to put a stop to this government sponsored sadism perpetrated by those who use this insidious Orwellian instrument of torture called the 'lie detector'!  Education is the most effective weapon I have to finally put a stop to the abusive practice of polygraph 'testing'.  Help me by educating yourself and others.  My book FROM COP TO CRUSADER: THE STORY OF MY FIGHT AGAINST THE DANGROUS MYTH OF "LIE DETECTION" is available on Amazon in e-book or paperback - please get this book and send it to as many people as you can - it literally destroys the myth of "lie detection"!  Doug Williams
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Re: Polygraph Place Bulletin Board Private Forum
Reply #28 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 8:47pm
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You go ahead and do that.  But I am done with you.  You are of no or little use to me.

Oh and no need to look through anything, it is common knowledge I am Joe McCarthy and my gripe with PP is no secret.  I don't hide behind screen names; I let others play that game.

No go play in a funnel cloud somewhere.  Until I can find a use for you, I'm done.
  

Joe
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Re: Polygraph Place Bulletin Board Private Forum
Reply #29 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 8:51pm
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Yo George, where is the ignore button?
  

Joe
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