Hot Topic (More than 15 Replies) Full Scope Polygraph Honesty (Read 18500 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Kegra86
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Full Scope Polygraph Honesty
Apr 3rd, 2012 at 11:07pm
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I'll try and keep this short.  I am currently Military and was told upon enlisting to "lie" on my SF86 about drug use.  After a year and a half I received my clearance with no issues and passed my CI polygraph.  4 years ago while having a TS/SCI Clearance I used club drugs aka "Ecstasy" about 5 times during the course of 4 months. Since then I have stopped and never touched it again.  I came up for review in early 2011 and did not report any drug use at all remembering out of fear what my recruiter said initially and scared I would loose my clearance.  I was cleared and got a new TS/SCI clearance and passed a second CI Poly with flying colors.  I am now coming up on separation from the military and got a job with a company requiring a Full Scope Polygraph.  My question is, if I go into this polygraph and I am 100% completely honest with them about my limited drug use will I pass it?  If not will they take my clearance for "Lying on a SF86?".  What will happen if I am honest with them?  I would really like to just get it all off my chest and be forthcoming.  I have been told by several people that have done an array of crimes including steroids, non-prescribed pain med abuse, alcohol abuse, and other things that they went in and were just 100% honest and they were cleared and passed.  Will this be my best route? Also would going to the Security Officers and telling them about the incidents before the polygraph give me a better chance?
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box stefano
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Re: Full Scope Polygraph Honesty
Reply #1 - Apr 4th, 2012 at 4:10am
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Kegra86 wrote on Apr 3rd, 2012 at 11:07pm:
I would really like to just get it all off my chest and be forthcoming.

This sounds like a line an examiner would use to urge you to make admissions. Nobody can assure you that your 100% honesty will set you free; we would all like to believe so, but sadly, the realities of the world transcend such ethics. I cannot understand how anyone would even want a career that causes so much stress and worry. I can only offer you my personal opinion: only make admissions to God, and even then, not in writing.
  
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Re: Full Scope Polygraph Honesty
Reply #2 - Apr 4th, 2012 at 3:06pm
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You're getting terrible advice from Stefano.  You will be asked about past drug involvement (not only use, but possession, sale, transporting, etc), and, whether you falsified your SF-86.  These questions are standard for a full-scope;  you passed your CI-scope polys because those issues were not tested.  Leaves you a choice, either discuss it with the examiner, or don't, and hope for the best, or try to use CMs.  You'll most likely be getting an R/I test, so you can't attack control questions with CMs.  If you fail and don't get hired, maybe you can send Stefano a personal thank-you for losing you a job opportunity.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box stefano
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Re: Full Scope Polygraph Honesty
Reply #3 - Apr 4th, 2012 at 5:51pm
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Kegra86,

I suggest you search back and read some of Quickfix's postings and you will "quickly" get the idea.

My only exposure to your scenario is from accounts posted on this website. I recall many who trusted the system and told the truth only to be cast aside anyway like a pair of old worn out shoes.

Nobody can force you to make any admissions, and once you start, they've got you.

I stand by my previous opinion.

« Last Edit: Apr 5th, 2012 at 2:32am by »  
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Re: Full Scope Polygraph Honesty
Reply #4 - Apr 5th, 2012 at 10:59am
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Kegra86

Your post indicates you already know the right course of action.† For most of us ideas like honor and duty have little impact on our thoughts and decisions or workplaces.† But that is not you, is it?† You don't have to present yourself as perfect; flawed but truthful is the best any of us can do.† Look em in the eyes and tell the truth.† Good luck.† Thank you for your service to our country.
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Re: Full Scope Polygraph Honesty
Reply #5 - Apr 5th, 2012 at 1:59pm
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Kegra,

Keep in mind that this John Wayne idealism is being brought to you by polygraph examiners. Already, they are trying to appeal to your sense of duty to do the "right thing." Be careful of wolves in sheeps clothing. Cover your own ass friend.
  
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Re: Full Scope Polygraph Honesty
Reply #6 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 11:23am
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stefano

Do I correctly recall you once posted that in your opinion it is always morally wrong to lie?
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Re: Full Scope Polygraph Honesty
Reply #7 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 1:09pm
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Kegra86 wrote on Apr 3rd, 2012 at 11:07pm:
I'll try and keep this short.  I am currently Military and was told upon enlisting to "lie" on my SF86 about drug use.  After a year and a half I received my clearance with no issues and passed my CI polygraph.  4 years ago while having a TS/SCI Clearance I used club drugs aka "Ecstasy" about 5 times during the course of 4 months. Since then I have stopped and never touched it again.  I came up for review in early 2011 and did not report any drug use at all remembering out of fear what my recruiter said initially and scared I would loose my clearance.  I was cleared and got a new TS/SCI clearance and passed a second CI Poly with flying colors.  I am now coming up on separation from the military and got a job with a company requiring a Full Scope Polygraph.  My question is, if I go into this polygraph and I am 100% completely honest with them about my limited drug use will I pass it?  If not will they take my clearance for "Lying on a SF86?".  What will happen if I am honest with them?  I would really like to just get it all off my chest and be forthcoming.  I have been told by several people that have done an array of crimes including steroids, non-prescribed pain med abuse, alcohol abuse, and other things that they went in and were just 100% honest and they were cleared and passed.  Will this be my best route? Also would going to the Security Officers and telling them about the incidents before the polygraph give me a better chance?


You should tell the truth and be prepared to accept any consequences for your past choices, as any responsible adult should.

Everyone makes mistakes.  If your past mistakes have an impact on your future plans, so be it.  Try not to worry if you will pass or fail, since that is really beyond your control.  What is within your control is whether you will lie or be honest.
  

Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous Ítes intellectuellement faillite.
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Re: Full Scope Polygraph Honesty
Reply #8 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 1:47pm
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Yes I believe it is wrong to lie. My post was about making admissions. You are encouraging him to admit to perjury.
  
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Re: Full Scope Polygraph Honesty
Reply #9 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 2:06pm
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Sergeant1107 wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 1:09pm:
Everyone makes mistakes.If your past mistakes have an impact on your future plans, so be it.†

So be it? How about not allowing some dweeb with a polygraph have any impact on your future plans in the first place?
  
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Re: Full Scope Polygraph Honesty
Reply #10 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 2:54pm
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Sergeant1107 wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 1:09pm:
Everyone makes mistakes.If your past mistakes have an impact on your future plans, so be it.†

So be it? How about not allowing some dweeb with a polygraph have any impact on your future plans in the first place?

In this particular case I would not characterize it as the dweeb with the polygraph having an impact.  I think it is more accurate to characterize it as the OP's poor choices in the past having an impact.

If he has the option to avoid a polygraph that is always the best idea.  If he has to pass one in order to get the job he wants, the polygraph operator will have an impact, regardless of whether the OP lies or is honest.  I think it is better to simply tell the truth and accept whatever consequences result from your past choices.  If choices he made in the past have a negative impact on his chances for the job he wants, I believe a responsible adult would simply accept that and move on.

  

Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous Ítes intellectuellement faillite.
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Re: Full Scope Polygraph Honesty
Reply #11 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 7:57pm
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Sergeant1107 wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 2:54pm:
I think it is better to simply tell the truth and accept whatever consequences result from your past choices.†

I am sure you've said similar things to others as you walked them to the lock up. I respect your opinion Sarge, but I don't trust the lot of them.
  
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Re: Full Scope Polygraph Honesty
Reply #12 - Apr 6th, 2012 at 8:19pm
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Sergeant1107 wrote on Apr 6th, 2012 at 2:54pm:
I think it is better to simply tell the truth and accept whatever consequences result from your past choices.†

I am sure you've said similar things to others as you walked them to the lock up. I respect your opinion Sarge, but I don't trust the lot of them.

I've given the same advice to other cops who screwed up and were considering lying or covering it up.† What else can you do but "man up" and admit you made a mistake and are willing to deal with the consequences?
  

Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous Ítes intellectuellement faillite.
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Re: Full Scope Polygraph Honesty
Reply #13 - Apr 9th, 2012 at 10:40am
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Yes I believe it is wrong to lie. My post was about making admissions. You are encouraging him to admit to perjury


So, it is wrong to lie, but okay to lie if the truth hurts?
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Re: Full Scope Polygraph Honesty
Reply #14 - Apr 9th, 2012 at 1:57pm
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pailryder wrote on Apr 9th, 2012 at 10:40am:
So, it is wrong to lie, but okay to lie if the truth hurts?

What is not okay Pailryder is to make admissions to some dolt whose only qualification is having passed a 320 hour course. You act like polygraph examiners are some kind of higher power to whom deference must be paid, but in reality you are pitiful little men with a crystal ball.
  
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Full Scope Polygraph Honesty

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