Hot Topic (More than 15 Replies) Failed Polygraph for local agency (Read 12969 times)
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Re: Failed Polygraph for local agency
Reply #15 - Oct 6th, 2011 at 2:16pm
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pailryder wrote on Oct 6th, 2011 at 10:47am:
They follow the rules of the agency that employes them, unless they are self-employed private examiners, they do not decide policy matters. 

So if agency policy conflicts with APA standards, they should just prostitute themselves and do as they are told? I think it is more likely that the agency will just take as gospel what the examiner says--they are unchecked and unfettered. 

If you dislike "absurd" statements, try countering them with a logical argument instead of acting like an immature kid on a playground. You will never do damage to me, but you certainly erode your own professional posture.
  
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Re: Failed Polygraph for local agency
Reply #16 - Oct 6th, 2011 at 9:29pm
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So if agency policy conflicts with APA standards, they should just prostitute themselves and do as they are told? 

Yes, just like all other federal, state, and local government employees, they go along.  Rogues rarely draw government retirement benefits.
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Re: Failed Polygraph for local agency
Reply #17 - Oct 6th, 2011 at 10:40pm
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Bill_Brown wrote on Oct 6th, 2011 at 2:42am:
Stefano, 

I do agree that a follow up exam should have been conducted, (break out exam).  I do not agree with DQ's based solely on polygraph results. 


I did get a tad annoyed when I was told that there was a possibility of a follow up exam that would feature questions directed toward the areas where I was "deceptive" in order to clear up the polygraph results.  Also, I didn't like being told "Well, the polygraph cannot be used as a means to DQ you and maybe we will do a follow up" just to be told a few days later that I am being DQ'd because of my polygraph results.   

Looking back, perhaps the polygrapher didn't want to put himself in an awkward position by telling me I was no longer in the process because when I asked my investigator if I could be poly'd again to clear up this misunderstanding he said they don't allow people to re-poly and would simply have to apply again. 

I am not stupid and coming from LE, I knew the moment he said I failed the poly when we were in that room that I was going to get DQ'd.  Also, the odds of me getting hired ever by the agency is slim to none since they keep the results for a few years so yeah....I don't know, I'm going to go back next year and tell them "Well guys, I failed your polygraph the first time but this time I plan to pass with the same responses I gave last year since that was the truth".  Not gonna happen, so I assume that I am on a blacklist with them most likely.  If you failed one poly, I don't see that agency ever wanting to deal with you again. Looking back on my first poly, I think I passed that one since it is a MUCH MUCH larger agency (1st poly was for an agency with about 4500 sworn personnel and this latest one was with about 400 sworn).   

At the end of the day I just don't know.  It's all just so.....shady.
  
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Re: Failed Polygraph for local agency
Reply #18 - Oct 6th, 2011 at 11:11pm
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I disagree with the statement about LE examiners not having unfettered power.  Even though he said they cannot DQ someone based on his report, my polygrapher and myself are not stupid. If someone fails the polygraph, they will not get hired.  He is unchecked in the sense that he has the sole power as to whether or not someone proceeds to next step of the process.

Think about it like this, all the other stages of selection are for the most part fair and are decided pretty much on your qualifications and background.

1st Step: A written exam.  In that exam you control your fate as to whether or not you move on, you don't get a 90 and then they say "well, you aren't moving forward".  Now granted, some places do a rank system based on your score and in that sense studying harder will give you a higher score and automatically ranked means you move on to next step regardless of anything else or anyone.  In this agency, our tests were pass/fail so I passed the exam and I moved on.

2nd Step (depending where you are applying to): An interview, again you control your fate.  Yes the panel decides whether you move on or not, but if YOU and ONLY YOU present yourself well, you know you will move on.

3rd Step: PT test for alot of places (not for this last agency I took the poly for), if you are in shape you will automatically move on to next phase. Pretty simple and fair.

4th Step: Polygraph, Your fate here no matter what you do is LARGELY out of your hands.  You have to agree on this, no matter what you do or say or your background, this is completely out of your hands as it was in my case.  I told the truth and from there could only hope I passed.  It is here where the unchecked power of the polygrapher makes his own decision based on his own testing or reasons.  You have no say in it.  Please don't say "well, if you tell the truth, you do!" because even if you tell the truth you can still fail. 

5th Step: BI.  Now at this point we are back to having some control over your fate.  If you have a solid background and even made it to the point of a BI odds are you are good to go.  I never failed a BI.  This is where alot of people get jammed up because of the lies they might have mentioned on an application.  However, if you are a solid guy and know you are, then once you get to the BI you know you have nothing to worry about.  Granted some agencies are so small that sometimes the hiring panel will pass you up because there are a ton of good applicants but at least here you can have some control as to whether or not you will pass.

6th step: Med/Psych.  Medical is pretty easy, if you have no problems you once again control if you pass or fail.  Psych can get a little complicated but in regards to that again, you can control if you pass or not since the questions have standardized responses (i.e. if you saying you are answering that you have thought about killing yourself, it is your fault alone that you failed).

I guess all I'm trying to say this is, out of all these little steps, the polygraph is the only one where it seems chance has a greater say as to whether you pass than merit or background.
  
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Failed Polygraph for local agency

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