Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) polygraph (Read 29934 times)
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polygraph
Sep 21st, 2011 at 9:23pm
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I recently took a polygraph and the person kept telling me that I'm moving too much. We went over the first section about relevant questions fine and then finished the next part about my drug activities and such. After she went outside to take a look at the graphs and papers, she came back in and told me that she needed more data on the first part and that the results of both parts were completely different as if I were a different person. We re-did the first part again like 3-4 more times and she kept telling me that I was moving too much and couldnt use the data that she collected. She kept asking me questions about why I kept moving and what was on my mind when I was answering the relevant questions that mightve made me to move or something. She then tried to use a different method for me to do the polygraph. Instead of answering yes or no to the questions, she told me to nod my head up and down for yes and nod my head left and right for no. After trying this out, she told me I was doing better and the data was better. She went outside and again she looked at the data and graphs again. Next, she came back in and told me she was still seeing responses and that she no longer wanted to waste her time dealing with me because she couldnt use the data that she collected.
So, my question is: was she telling me the truth or what?
  
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Re: polygraph
Reply #1 - Sep 22nd, 2011 at 7:18pm
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what she was telling you was that you were suspected of engaging in countermeasures despite repeated warnings to remain still;  you were administered a "silent answer" test, which is designed to eliminate answer distortions which occur on occasion.  If the movements continue during this type of test, it's a good bet you were attempting CMs, just like George M. did on two separate occasions with two different, unrelated agencies.  This type of behavior is considered "purposeful noncooperation".  Contrary to what you read on this site, CMs don't have to be confirmed, only suspected, to put a quick halt to your employment pursuit. George found out exactly that when the FBI and LAPD showed him the door.
  
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Re: polygraph
Reply #2 - Sep 22nd, 2011 at 8:12pm
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CMs don't have to be confirmed, only suspected, to put a quick halt to your employment pursuit.

You hit the nail on the head--polygraphists exercise their control and power based upon a subjective whim. This is exactly why the practice should be abolished.
  
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Re: polygraph
Reply #3 - Sep 22nd, 2011 at 8:21pm
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it's not subjective, it's pretty obvious when someone is deliberately distorting the tracings;  "suspected" is not a whim, but it's just not confirmed by an admission;  we do exercise control (I don't know about "power";  maybe if those who read this site exercised their own "control and power" and went through the exam honestly, they wouldn't find themselves in this guy's predicament.
  
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Re: polygraph
Reply #4 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 12:29am
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quickfix wrote on Sep 22nd, 2011 at 8:21pm:
it's pretty obvious when someone is deliberately distorting the tracings

I would not call this a countermeasure; it's an attempt at sabotage. The truth is you have no ability to detect a properly executed countermeasure--any "suspicions" would only be a subset of your examiner bias. And yes, contributing to a decision to send somebody back to prison or lose a chance at a career is power--power that should not be ordained upon someone who completed a 320 hour course (minus time spent at the donut shop).
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: polygraph
Reply #5 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 3:43am
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homework,

It's possible that you were suspected of using countermeasures, as polyboy1 opines, but it's not necessarily the case. The silent answer test may be used as a counter-countermeasure, but it may also be used in an attempt to minimize movements not suspected as being countermeasures. In any event, movement during the relevant questions is a pretty stupid countermeasure.

If you were strongly suspected of using countermeasures, I would expect that you would have received a post-test interrogation in an attempt to get an admission. But that doesn't seem to have happened in your case.

polyboy1,

You allege that I attempted countermeasures "on two separate occasions with two different, unrelated agencies." Where did you hear that?
  

George W. Maschke
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Re: polygraph
Reply #6 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 6:09pm
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And yes, contributing to a decision to send somebody back to prison or lose a chance at a career is power--power that should not be ordained upon someone who completed a 320 hour course (minus time spent at the donut shop).


Stefano, 

A polygraph examiner makes no decision regarding employment or sending a person to prison.  The APA states polygraph should not be used as a stand alone tool to disqualify a person from employment.  It should be used as an aid to the background investigation.  If some agencies ignore APA's stand on polygraph, blame the agency, not the examiner or polygraph and lets work together to right the wrongs.   
  
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Re: polygraph
Reply #7 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 6:28pm
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George M:  I didn't "hear" it anywhere;  I have seen your charts.  We use them as a training tool;  yours are a classic.  After ten years, isn't it time to move on?  You were caught at the FBI using CMs, you were caught at LAPB, you didn't fess up, and you weren't hired by either.  End of story.  Give it up!
  
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Re: polygraph
Reply #8 - Sep 23rd, 2011 at 10:32pm
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Bill_Brown wrote on Sep 23rd, 2011 at 6:09pm:
lets work together to right the wrongs. 

How I wish there were more like you to work with. Most of your ranks are filled with the polyboy1 and quickfix types.
  
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Re: polygraph
Reply #9 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 4:33am
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polyboy1,

When you say regarding my polygraph charts, "We use them as a training tool," who is "we?"
  

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I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
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Re: polygraph
Reply #10 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 10:48am
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Most of your ranks are filled with the polyboy1 and quickfix types


That is just your opinion, Stefano.  I know many thoughtful reasonable examiners of the Bill Brown type, but they won't post on a site dedicated to the abolishion of their chosen profession.
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Re: polygraph
Reply #11 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 11:25am
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George W. Maschke wrote on Sep 24th, 2011 at 4:33am:
When you say regarding my polygraph charts, "We use them as a training tool," who is "we?" 


I believe "we" is us!  I think almost everyone on our side has seen those charts.
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Re: polygraph
Reply #12 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 11:41am
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pailryder,

Are you saying that you've seen my polygraph charts? If so, where, and when? Who/what agency presented them?
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
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Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Re: polygraph
Reply #13 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 2:27pm
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Pailryder:  right on the money; "we" is indeed us (although to answer his question, "we" is my polygraph unit);  George M. can't possibly be that naive to think agencies don't share anecdotal CM charts, or that suspected and confirmed cases are not used to train new examiners, can he?
  
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Re: polygraph
Reply #14 - Sep 24th, 2011 at 5:55pm
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I don't know, polyboy1, according to George and the Lex Luthor of Polygraph, we are wasting our time because it is impossible to identify a properly executed cm.
« Last Edit: Sep 25th, 2011 at 11:48am by pailryder »  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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