Normal Topic Countermeasure Clarification (Read 4791 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box playstation777
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 3
Joined: Sep 7th, 2010
Countermeasure Clarification
Apr 28th, 2011 at 5:44pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I have been reading "The Lie Behind The Lie Detector" but I have a few questions that I would like some clarification on.  My first question is that when breathing between two to four seconds should a breath be counted from the time of inhale to when you start exhaling, or should you only count it after you have fully exhaled?  My second is how to address the question "Other than what you have told me have you ever lie"?  I am under the impression that it's an easy way to have someone make an admission, or is it simply a control question depending on if the examiner likes you?  My third question is regarding if downloading songs and movies is a dis-qualifier?  Or does it depend on how many and if you sold anything for profit?  I was also wondering for reading material would something written by Bill O'Reilly be acceptable?  I would appreciate any feedback.  Thank you.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Chuckles
User
**
Offline


Polygraph Survivor

Posts: 37
Joined: Mar 17th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Countermeasure Clarification
Reply #1 - Apr 29th, 2011 at 2:17am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
When breathing between two to four seconds should a breath be counted from the time of inhale to when you start exhaling, or should you only count it after you have fully exhaled?


It's 2-4 seconds from the beginning of one in-out cycle to the beginning of the next in-out cycle. In my case it was a little shallower and slightly more rapidly than my usual breaths.

Quote:
My second is how to address the question "Other than what you have told me have you ever lie"?  I am under the impression that it's an easy way to have someone make an admission, or is it simply a control question depending on if the examiner likes you?


That is a control question. You know it's a control question when it isn't asking about anything important and even if you admitted to doing what they are asking about you would not be penalized. They are meant to be ambiguous and hard to answer. The doubt that rises up in your mind when you think that surely there must have been a lie that you forgot to mention will register a response with the equipment. When you augment your response to control questions you make it look like you naturally have a big response to stressful questions. This will make any response you have to relevant questions seem insignificant in comparison.

Quote:
Is downloading songs and movies a dis-qualifier?


Downloading songs is technically illegal, so maybe, depending on who is polygraphing you, but in most cases I don't think it would be important enough to penalize you. The worst thing you could do would be to go into the test and then when you are halfway through it (or after it) break down and admit to it. It would be much better to just admit it up front or not admit it at all. Either way you should pass the polygraph exam if you follow the instructions in "The Lie Behind The Lie Detector."

Quote:
Would something written by Bill O'Reilly be acceptable?


I would stick to less political material, on the off chance that your polygraph examiner knows who Bill O'Reilly is and thinks he is an obnoxious windbag. Don't want to get off on the wrong foot.
  

Chuckles
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box stefano
Ex Member


Re: Countermeasure Clarification
Reply #2 - Apr 29th, 2011 at 3:47am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Chuckles wrote on Apr 29th, 2011 at 2:17am:
The doubt that rises up in your mind when you think that surely there must have been a lie that you forgot to mention will register a response with the equipment. When you augment your response to control questions you make it look like you naturally have a big response to stressful questions. 

Chuckles, you have some good insight. Let me help a bit. The polygraph technique incorporates a concept that the "innocent" examinee's "psychological set" is affixed to the control questions and are thus perceived as being more of a threat to his well being; the supposition is that it's just the opposite with the "guilty" examinee.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box darkferret
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 2
Joined: Jun 7th, 2011
Re: Countermeasure Clarification
Reply #3 - Jun 7th, 2011 at 1:51pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
So when you answer a control question does it matter if you answer yes or no even if you augment the response with countermeasures? Since they expect you to have told a lie at some point in your life is making that admission as "yes" going to count against you even if augmented?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Online


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6220
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Countermeasure Clarification
Reply #4 - Jun 7th, 2011 at 6:49pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
darkferret wrote on Jun 7th, 2011 at 1:51pm:
So when you answer a control question does it matter if you answer yes or no even if you augment the response with countermeasures? Since they expect you to have told a lie at some point in your life is making that admission as "yes" going to count against you even if augmented?


As discussed at pp. 98-99 of the 4th edition of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, if the control question is one to which a "no" answer is expected and the examinee makes admissions, the control question will be rephrased as, "Other than what you told me, did you ever...?" so that the examinee can give the expected answer, "no."
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Chuckles
User
**
Offline


Polygraph Survivor

Posts: 37
Joined: Mar 17th, 2011
Gender: Male
Directed lie
Reply #5 - Jun 10th, 2011 at 8:21am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
But don't forget about the directed lie type of control question, when the examiner instructs the subject to lie, "in order to see what you look like when you are lying." Those are nice, because they make the control questions easy to identify for those of us who employ countermeasures.

I can't understand how direct lie control questions could ever be of any use at all, because if he and I have come to an understanding that I am going to lie, then it's not really a lie and a trusting person might not feel one bit anxious/threatened when answering such a question.
  

Chuckles
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box stefano
Ex Member


Re: Countermeasure Clarification
Reply #6 - Jun 10th, 2011 at 6:28pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Chuckles wrote on Jun 10th, 2011 at 8:21am:
I can't understand how direct lie control questions could ever be of any use at all, because if he and I have come to an understanding that I am going to lie, then it's not really a lie and a trusting person might not feel one bit anxious/threatened when answering such a question. 

Chuckles,
I've actually discussed this with the scientist involved in development of the Directed Lie CQT. Whereas the Probable Lie CQ's are based on the notion of a threat to the subject's well being, the Direct Lie CQ's are based upon a concept of the "mental work" required to process the question.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Chuckles
User
**
Offline


Polygraph Survivor

Posts: 37
Joined: Mar 17th, 2011
Gender: Male
That is interesting
Reply #7 - Jun 11th, 2011 at 9:20am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Thanks for shedding light on how the directed lie questions are intended to work Stefano, I had never heard their reasoning.
  

Chuckles
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Countermeasure Clarification

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X