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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Home Polygraph Machines (Read 39424 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box pailryder
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Re: Home Polygraph Machines
Reply #15 - Mar 30th, 2011 at 6:12pm
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So during WWII if our ambassador lied to the Nazi's to protect innocent Jews, you hold his actions, lies if you prefer, to be unethical?

Lying is not always bad or wrong, it can be the moral ethical thing to do in some circumstances.
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Re: Home Polygraph Machines
Reply #16 - Mar 30th, 2011 at 6:26pm
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pailryder wrote on Mar 30th, 2011 at 6:12pm:
So during WWII if our ambassador lied to the Nazi's to protect innocent Jews, you hold his actions, lies if you prefer, to be unethical?

Lying is not always bad or wrong, it can be the moral ethical thing to do in some circumstances.


You will never be dubbed the analogy king. However if you need such rationalizations to justify deceiving your clients, go for it.
  
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Re: Home Polygraph Machines
Reply #17 - Mar 30th, 2011 at 7:26pm
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I do not deceive my clients.
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Re: Home Polygraph Machines
Reply #18 - Mar 30th, 2011 at 8:34pm
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"Why don't you have similar hate for people who get drunk and kill kids in car wrecks? I really think you have some unresolved issues. It would be interesting to have a look inside your closet."

stefano:  the analogy isn't even close;  the difference is intent;  child molesters don't molest by accident;  drunk drivers don't intend to kill others;  molesters are scumbags, like Chuckles;  drunk drivers are just plain stupid.  Try looking in your own closet;  sounds like you're the one with issues if you can't distinguish between the two.
  
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Right or wrong, it's time we accept reality
Reply #19 - Mar 30th, 2011 at 9:05pm
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While it would be great if we could expect professionalism and honesty from people working in an official capacity, that just isn't the case. Investigators and prosecutors and polygraph examiners are all just humans with the same faults and prejudices as the rest of the population. In any profession there are going to be some bad apples mixed in with the ethical people. In AA I learned to accept the things I can't change, and I think I have the wisdom to know that I don't have much control over the attitudes or habits of other people.

The thing that we should all be able to agree on is that the polygraph exam is not a reliable way to tell if someone is lying. I think quickfix is so hateful towards me because she thinks that I went into a polygraph exam and lied about molesting children and got away with it. For her to make the kind of comments she made proves that she knows that the polygraph is unreliable and can be beaten with counter measures. I don't take her hate personally - maybe she is just describing her worst nightmare, the thing she goes to work every day trying to stop. I have never given any personal details about my crime, so she just filled in the gaps with whatever was on her mind.

Bottom line, both the victims of the polygraph exam and the examiners all know that it's unreliable.
  

Chuckles
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Re: Home Polygraph Machines
Reply #20 - Mar 30th, 2011 at 9:14pm
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The only victims here are the children molested by you.  So you didn't reveal the details of your crime?  That makes your crime a little more acceptable???  What an imbecile you are.
  
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Re: Home Polygraph Machines
Reply #21 - Mar 30th, 2011 at 10:48pm
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pailryder wrote on Mar 30th, 2011 at 7:26pm:
I do not deceive my clients. 

I have yet to see a polygraph exam that was free of deception by the examiner. If you are the exception, then I salute you.
  
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Re: Home Polygraph Machines
Reply #22 - Mar 30th, 2011 at 10:53pm
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quickfix wrote on Mar 30th, 2011 at 8:34pm:
"Why don't you have similar hate for people who get drunk and kill kids in car wrecks? I really think you have some unresolved issues. It would be interesting to have a look inside your closet."

stefano:  the analogy isn't even close;  the difference is intent;  child molesters don't molest by accident;  drunk drivers don't intend to kill others;  molesters are scumbags, like Chuckles;  drunk drivers are just plain stupid.  Try looking in your own closet;  sounds like you're the one with issues if you can't distinguish between the two.

Sorry I don't don't subscribe to your witch hunt mentality. I choose to see the world from a sober footing. It's all about hate. You need someone to hate. Before it was acceptable to hate blacks, jews, gays etc. But now that's not permissible anymore, but it's still okay to hate sex offenders. I am not on their side, but I don't ally myself with those who think sex offenders have the corner on slime. So, we can overlook drunks who kill children in cars simply because they didn't intend to? That's the rationalization of the year. Your issue is not sex offenders but rather the hatred that is poisoning your heart.
  
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Re: Home Polygraph Machines
Reply #23 - Mar 31st, 2011 at 10:03am
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stefano

The Guilty Knowledge Test, Directed Lie Comparison Question Test and Relevant/Irrelevant Test are all techniques that do not rely or depend on examiner deception.

Thank you for the calm and thoughtful discussion.
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Re: Home Polygraph Machines
Reply #24 - Mar 31st, 2011 at 7:35pm
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pailryder wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 10:03am:
stefano

The Guilty Knowledge Test, Directed Lie Comparison Question Test and Relevant/Irrelevant Test are all techniques that do not rely or depend on examiner deception.

Thank you for the calm and thoughtful discussion.

I agree that the GKT by itself does not involve direct deception on behalf of the examiner; other than the general deception regarding the polygraph's accuracy. However, if a successive hurdles approach is employed, other formats will come into play.

The directed lie format as proffered by the University of Utah, does simplify the pretest interview. I don't believe the technique is widely used at this point. I have had discussions with Dr. Honts regarding this technique and he tends to believe the underlying concepts are based on mental work. He stands firm that lab experiments reveal higher levels of accuracy, but I have not scrutinized the empirical data.

You should not be using the R/I test technique as its as useless as a coin toss.
  
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Re: Home Polygraph Machines
Reply #25 - Mar 31st, 2011 at 11:36pm
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stefano

I did not say that I currently use the R/I technique.  I simple cite it as one of several techniques that does not depend on examiner deception. 
« Last Edit: Apr 1st, 2011 at 11:32am by pailryder »  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Re: Home Polygraph Machines
Reply #26 - Dec 29th, 2011 at 11:33pm
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Wow this site is impressive, actually some very intelligent people. Im used to forums overun by sheep.. the general public, mostly complete morons.. anyways

Chuckles your a sick f*ck u deserve to raped mentally in the water ever way hurts you most because i big nig in jail prob doesn't bother you much. Hopefully you cant get the women or men you desire and are so hurt by it you act out w sexual perversions> if you can get the people you desire I hope they tear your heart and your mind apart leaving to know and feel what a piece of shit you are. you destroy innocent childrens lives you fucking mucus

and other guy we all hate drunk drivers just the same as nigs , jews and sex offenders... no im not racist although i love using the words to enrage the weak.. hate is healthy displacement of anger take a psyc class

im a jew nigger 3 time conv drunken driver but atleast I can rent an apartment chuckles u shitbag
  
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Re: Home Polygraph Machines
Reply #27 - Dec 30th, 2011 at 8:04am
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im a jew nigger 3 time conv drunken driver but atleast I can rent an apartment chuckles u shitbag 

Quickfix, you may have just been dethroned.
  
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Re: Home Polygraph Machines
Reply #28 - Dec 30th, 2011 at 7:17pm
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I humbly yield to the new king!!!
  
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Re: Home Polygraph Machines
Reply #29 - Jan 2nd, 2012 at 2:13am
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pailryder, stefano and chuckles: great conversation. All have opinions and all speak well of their views.
quickfix and yourallsheep: Unreal. You need to converse intellectually, not with the obvious hate you are displaying. I am sure their are bad polygraph examiners out there as there are "the bad" in everything profession. You can not hold all to the actions of "the bad". I believe in the polygraph and have seen it used effectively evry time. The polygraph is a great investigative tool. As far as being deceptive; a person lying about their crime is often cornered by the deceptive interviewer. I know LE who have interviewed a person for a couple of hours and longer and have finally had the suspect confess. It is not a simple, "yes I did it." It is an admission with supportng facts. Often the facts are only known by the suspect or someone tod by the suspect, the victis and the LE. LE doesn't rely on confession alone. There have been many people who  confess or admit to a crime only to have LE disprove it and send them on their way. LE deal with the facts but LE is subject to mistakes also. I have seen Polyygraphs were the person showed to be lying and the examiner called the examinee on the lie. The examinee continued to lie and fnally gave up the act and admitted. The examinee then went on to relay the details of the crime. There iis no doubt about the confession. The examiner held true to the test result and ould not relent. I am sure tehre are tests that are not so obvious and this is where a  skilled inteviewer is needed. Deception is part of it. It is about solving the crime and getting resolution for the victims.

Everyone has their opinion. That's the way it should.
LE have their hands full trying to keep up  with investigating crimes.
Polygraph examiners are an investigative tool who have proven their worth many times over.
Chuckles: Not knowing you, if what you say is true; then, I can not explain it or even try to and I would not want to be in your position. My view to your situation is; if you did it, dont do it again. If you didn't do it, you were wronged somewhere.
The polygraph is only a part of the investigation and not the final word.
  
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