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What is the standard testing format in sex offender polygraphs? (Read 65153 times)

antipolygraphrso New User Offline Posts: 16 Joined: Apr 13^th, 2011	Re: What is the standard testing format in sex offender polygraphs? Reply #15 - Apr 13^th, 2011 at 2:46am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	There is no 'standard'. It's a bunch of witch doctor voodoo science. I can tell you I straight up 'lied' on my poly's, some of which I passed and some of which I failed. lolz. Seriously. At what? 200-250 a pop (American Dollars), it's a great little scheme that pays the rent/bills. Mix that in with 'Sex Offender' treatment and you got a perfect little playing field. This whole forum is gonna be a interesting read. And the best thing? I never used any 'countermeasures'. It's all about the questions that were being asked. Half-truths/Half-lies. Gotta admit though, at about 25k worth of bills later (OH, EXCUSE ME, I meant 25k of financial ass-rape), it's quite the racket. Some of these 'Treatment Providers' and 'Polygraphers' should be brought up on RICO violations/offenses. Hell, there isn't an engineer in my state that has a policy/process on how Polygraph machines are even 'calibrated'. Much less how they share that 'information'/'software'.


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pailryder Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 441 Joined: Jun 5^th, 2006	Re: What is the standard testing format in sex offender polygraphs? Reply #16 - Apr 16^th, 2011 at 11:03am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	antipolygraphrso wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 2:46am: Hell, there isn't an engineer in my state that has a policy/process on how Polygraph machines are even 'calibrated' antipolygraphrso Certainly, there are standards. Calibration and other standards can be found at the web site of the American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM). Do I understand you to say you paid 25k for a sexual offender treatment program? Did it work?

	No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers. David Thoreson Lykken
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antipolygraphrso New User Offline Posts: 16 Joined: Apr 13^th, 2011	Re: What is the standard testing format in sex offender polygraphs? Reply #17 - Apr 16^th, 2011 at 8:11pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	pailryder wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 11:03am: antipolygraphrso wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 2:46am: Hell, there isn't an engineer in my state that has a policy/process on how Polygraph machines are even 'calibrated' antipolygraphrso Certainly, there are standards. Calibration and other standards can be found at the web site of the American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM). Do I understand you to say you paid 25k for a sexual offender treatment program? Did it work? Yea, easily 25k. Work? I'll pleasure you with a response. Haha, er, no. Not even sure why I was in there to begin with. Not for some chump ass misdemeanor. Define 'work'. What exactly was I supposed to 'learn' there? It's ok though, guy like you (or gals for that matter, lets be gender neutral) make your money either way. Like I said, the 'system' got their cash, and you guys yours, so it's all good. Just remember that people (at least me) have VERY long memories. Oh, and if I learned anything in 'Sex Offender' treatment, it was patience. The time will come. Most assuredly.


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stefano Ex Member	Re: What is the standard testing format in sex offender polygraphs? Reply #18 - Apr 18^th, 2011 at 6:30pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	pailryder wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 11:03am: antipolygraphrso Certainly, there are standards. Calibration and other standards can be found at the web site of the American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM). It's a misnomer to state that polygraphists calibrate their instruments. They only check to see if they are within the manufacturer's specifications. Calibration requires setting the parameters to an established known standard; this is usually done by a technician who knows how to make the amplifier gain adjustments. Also, since the measurements made with the polygraph instruments are not quantitative, precise calibration is not crucial.


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pailryder Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 441 Joined: Jun 5^th, 2006	Re: What is the standard testing format in sex offender polygraphs? Reply #19 - Apr 18^th, 2011 at 6:56pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	ASTM E2063-05(2011) Stand Practice for Calibration and Functionally Check used in Forensic Psychophysiological Detection of Deception (Polygraph) Examinations

	No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers. David Thoreson Lykken
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stefano Ex Member	Re: What is the standard testing format in sex offender polygraphs? Reply #20 - Apr 18^th, 2011 at 9:40pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	pailryder wrote on Apr 18^th, 2011 at 6:56pm: ASTM E2063-05(2011)Stand Practice for Calibration and Functionally Check used in Forensic Psychophysiological Detection of Deception (Polygraph) Examinations What it boils down to is ensuring you have at least an inch and half needle swing for a quarter inch of pnuemo bellows expansion, the same swing for a 2 mmHG change on the sphygmomanometer, and a quarter inch swing for every 2,000 ohms of skin resistance change. This is about as scientific as adjusting your old distributor points with a feelers gauge.


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Bill_Brown Very Senior User Offline Posts: 227 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2011	Re: What is the standard testing format in sex offender polygraphs? Reply #21 - Apr 19^th, 2011 at 2:12am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	This is about as scientific as adjusting your old distributor points with a feelers gauge. I am surprised to find anyone remembering what a feeler gauge was. It was the only way of setting your points and plugs in the "Old Days".


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antipolygraphrso New User Offline Posts: 16 Joined: Apr 13^th, 2011	Re: What is the standard testing format in sex offender polygraphs? Reply #22 - Apr 19^th, 2011 at 4:23am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Bill_Brown wrote on Apr 19^th, 2011 at 2:12am: This is about as scientific as adjusting your old distributor points with a feelers gauge. I am surprised to find anyone remembering what a feeler gauge was. It was the only way of setting your points and plugs in the "Old Days". If I recall, I remember a feeler gauge from working on old school VW's. So yea, your not alone.


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pailryder Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 441 Joined: Jun 5^th, 2006	Re: What is the standard testing format in sex offender polygraphs? Reply #23 - Apr 19^th, 2011 at 12:28pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: What it boils down to is ensuring you have at least an inch and half needle swing for a quarter inch of pnuemo bellows expansion Really, I have never seen a polygraph needle. Perhaps you have a picture of one? Or maybe you mean a pen? You do know that the collection systems have been computerized since the 90's.

	No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers. David Thoreson Lykken
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stefano Ex Member	Re: What is the standard testing format in sex offender polygraphs? Reply #24 - Apr 19^th, 2011 at 5:48pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	pailryder wrote on Apr 19^th, 2011 at 12:28pm: Really, I have never seen a polygraph needle.Perhaps you have a picture of one?Or maybe you mean a pen? You do know that the collection systems have been computerized since the 90's. This indicative of 14 weeks of polygraph examiner training versus 11 years in the study of psycho-physiology. All you know is what was taught to you. Yes I am quite aware of computerized polygraphs. How well do you understand the discriminate analysis theory used in the algorithms?


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pailryder Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 441 Joined: Jun 5^th, 2006	Re: What is the standard testing format in sex offender polygraphs? Reply #25 - Apr 20^th, 2011 at 11:25am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: This indicative of 14 weeks of polygraph examiner training versus 11 years in the study of psycho-physiology I guess that needle pricked someone's inflated ego. You, stefano, know nothing about my education, polygraph or otherwise, so why try to make a personal attack?
	« Last Edit: Apr 20^th, 2011 at 12:19pm by pailryder »
	No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers. David Thoreson Lykken
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pailryder Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 441 Joined: Jun 5^th, 2006	Re: What is the standard testing format in sex offender polygraphs? Reply #26 - Apr 20^th, 2011 at 12:18pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	stefano I apologize for that last post. Sometimes I get caught up in the combative nature of the postings on this site. I do respect your opinion and I am very interested in your evaluation of the discriminate analysis theory used in the scoring algorithms.

	No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers. David Thoreson Lykken
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stefano Ex Member	Re: What is the standard testing format in sex offender polygraphs? Reply #27 - Apr 20^th, 2011 at 4:12pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	pailryder wrote on Apr 20^th, 2011 at 12:18pm: I apologize for that last post.Sometimes I get caught up in the combative nature of the postings on this site. No apology necessary--as David Hume said, it is our emotion that gives impetus to our ethics. I work with a myriad of instruments that both record and simply indicate--"needle swing" is a generic jargon I'm used to using for any kind of indicator movement, including digital read outs.


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stefano Ex Member	Re: What is the standard testing format in sex offender polygraphs? Reply #28 - Apr 28^th, 2011 at 12:19am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Pailryder, please don't stop posting. You are one of the few polygraphists here who actually have an open discerning mind. I enjoy my exchanges with you.


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Twoblock God Member Offline Posts: 732 Location: AR. Joined: Oct 15^th, 2002 Gender:	Re: What is the standard testing format in sex offender polygraphs? Reply #29 - Apr 28^th, 2011 at 1:38am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	stefano I have been a member this website since its inception and I have found two polygraphers that make honest, intelligent and sincere posts. They are pailryder and, years ago, Public Servant. I have often wondered if they are one and the same. I became pretty good friends here with Public Servant. I offered him a moose hunt in Alaska but he could never take me up on it. Little bit late now since I'm closing down my mining operations and retiring. I'm 80 yrs. young now and my wife of 58 years says we need to see some of the world. I have seen a lot of it so maybe I can show her where I've been. I hope to get over to see George one day.


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