Normal Topic utter failure (Read 4934 times)
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utter failure
Jun 8th, 2009 at 1:53pm
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I took my first poly last week as a condition for employment.  I wish I had known about this site or had at least researched the polygraph.  I figured I was going to be honest and had nothing to fear, I did have some concerns I over analyze things too much.   
I met with the poly operator, very nice polite, he asked the questions and I answered honestly and in great depth.  even after I had answered a question a memory came forward and I presented it to the poly operator.  There have been some things that I have done in my distant past that I am very embarrassed about, thing in my early twenties.  Some of them minor infractions of the law others just go against my current morals and beliefs.  I talked to the poly operator for over three hours before getting hooked up to the machine.  I made a joke about the chair being "old Sparky".  I wish I could remember the questions better but, I can't.  One question was; is my name ***?  Do intend to answer all the question truthfully?  Have you ever committed any illegal sex act?  Have you ever used excessive force?  Other than what you have told me have you ever used any illegal drugs?   
The poly operator ran me through the ten questions 3 times.  After the set of questions he asked me if there were any questions I thought I had a problem with and being to honest I answered.  The pre-test interview lasted so long I had a dry mouth.  I was told to breath normally and not to swallow.  The first set of questions I think I had to swallow after each question.  The next set of questions I was reminded not to swallow, I tried not to swallow but I had to several times and one time I caught myself.  Before the third set of questions I asked for a drink of water, this only help a little I still had to swallow a few times.  Me not swallowing  caused me distress.  After the 10 questions three times, he gathered up all the charts and left the room.  He came back in and said he was going to ask some more questions.  This pretty much told me the results were not favorable to me.  He asked me the 10 questions two times each.  He unhooked me and left the room.  When he came back in he told me there were signs of deception, about the sex question, the drug question and the use of excessive force question and then he said there were deception in some of the police questions.  I have worked in law enforcement for 8 years, the times when I have had to use force to make an arrest are very limited and every time was justifiable.  The drug use I told what I had used and when was the last time I had used over 15 years ago.  The sex question other than having sex with a married woman while I was in the Army I had never done any of the examples the poly operator listed.  I left the room feeling utterly despondent/depressed, I was in disbelief.   

I got home there was an e-mail telling me the job offer had been pulled.  I still have questions about my recourse.  Any advice?  would swallowing during the test make any difference, will my embarrassment about the sex question make a difference, why did he come back into the room and ask me more questions when he had told me he was only going to ask the same 10 questions 3 time each.  When he told me I was being deceptive he said he had consulted another poly operator and they had agreed to the results, was this a ploy, the chance of 2 poly operators taking 5 hours to interview me i find far fetched.  Any suggestions welcomed!!
  
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Re: utter failure
Reply #1 - Jun 9th, 2009 at 3:22am
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fatbob,

I am sorry to hear about your experience with the polygraph. I did find it strinkingly similar to my experience when I applied for a job in corrections. I overanalyze also, and during the "in-test" phase of the polygraph, I had to swallow alot also. Actually I swallowed before each question was asked, not because I was tyring to skew the results, but because I was nervous and genuinly thirsty. The room in which the test was conducted was hot, cramped, and small. he told me not to swallow, and that finally (he was really frusturated of course) he was going to tell me when to swallow! After the test, he said I failed and I was using countermeasures......
     Now im not sure if the swallowing had anything to do with it, but I definatly think it was the reason he said I was being deceptive. Around the third phase of the test, I was so thirsty I asked him for a drink. The a**hole got up all pissed off and got me one, but I knew my fate was sealed.
     I signed a voluntary withdrawl form so that if other departments had looked into what had happend at the DOC, it would have shown that I withdrew on my own accord.  I figured this would help me out, but a couple moths later I was a candidate for a police department, and told my background invewstigator about the voluntary withdrawl form. When I went to take the poly for that department the operator said he spoke to the DOC polygrapher, and he said I was deceptive, so he did not feel comfortable administering the exam. As a result, the conditional offer was revoked.
     I am 23 years old. graduated with honors from a great university. Graduated with a BS in Criminal justice, and have family in LE. This has come back to haunt me time and time again. I really think the only way to dispute the results would be to get a lawyer, but as in my particualr state of residence. They all talk to one another so suing would get me blackballed moreso than I already am.

sincerely,

M1986
  
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Re: utter failure
Reply #2 - Jun 9th, 2009 at 7:54pm
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I can't think of a single good reason why a person shouldn't be allowed a few sips of water between question series. I believe an examinee should expect the cardio cuff be deflated, given an opportunity to adjust their position if needed and take a drink if they need one between each question series. On the other hand when someone can't seem to remain relatively still for a 3 to 5 minute question series, or makes the same movement at the same place on every question, whether before or after, once being cautioned they begin to appear non-cooperative. 

If the data has been trashed by movements, the opinion of the examiner should be that no conclusion was possible based on unscorable data. The subject should not be called deceptive based on unscorable data. The examiner is also entitled to articulate the circumstances and render his opinion as to whether or not the person taking the test was deliberately trying to alter the data.

If someone is stressed to the point of severe dry mouth, berating them about swallowing isn't likely to make things any better.  A water break or even taking enough time to allow someone to dissolve a cough drop is generally more productive.

As to why 2 additional question series were collected, based on your description of the test, I believe that the format being used recommends 2 additional question series if after the first 3 question series are collected,there is still insufficient data to render an opinion.

If after the 2 additional question series there appears to be enough data to render an opinion of No Significant Reaction, then testing is concluded. If there is enough data to conclude that their were significant reactions to relevant questions then current American Polygraph Association Protocol calls for additional question series focused specifically on the reactive areas and does not allow a finding of deception unless the new tests are conclusive. If the last 2 question series had the same problems as the first 3 then the proper finding would be inconclusive.

However, your examiner may not follow the APA protocol. If you are in a state that requires examiners be licensed then a formal complaint will trigger a review of the examination by someone not connected with the agency to which you applied, such a review might disclose the information you seek. 

Polygraph examinations routinely take a 2-3 hours if everything goes well. 

Even though some agencies require an excessive force question for experienced officers, I don't like it because every officer who has ever had to use force, whether justified or not has been second guessed by their co-workers, administrations, the public, and even themselves. If it was justified, it isn't relevant to their suitability for employment and if it wasn't, it should show up in their background investigation. I prefer asking if they have failed to disclose any previous disciplinary actions. It accomplishes the same thing without putting a good cop on the defensive.

Any agency that would blackball someone because he had problems with another agencies pre employment polygraph, probably wouldn't be worth your trouble any way. I have heard of one guy who failed 3 polygraph exams before he found his career agency. Keep trying. 
  
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Re: utter failure
Reply #3 - Jun 9th, 2009 at 8:20pm
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I sat very still, although I was reminded to breath normally.  I tend to take shallow breaths then have to take a deep breath, just the way I am.  The swallowing was not intentional, and after the first series of testing I made a conscious effort not to swallow, one time I caught myself and clenched my teeth to stop swallowing. I found this sight after the failed test, I was never accused of using counter measures, but I could see some of my actions fall into some counter measures, and if one of the relevant questions was being asked when I did clench my teeth  that could record a negative reaction.
  
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Re: utter failure
Reply #4 - Jun 9th, 2009 at 8:31pm
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I also had a breathing issue and I thought I was breathing normal until the examiner told me otherwise. Everything was inconclusive. Then about the third time- I had put my head back and the saliva build up in my mouth caused me to swallow a lot and that test also was scratch. How accurate can this thing be if swallowing messes it up? Huh
  
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Re: utter failure
Reply #5 - Jun 9th, 2009 at 10:13pm
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You need to remain relatively still because of the sensitivity of the instruments being used to collect the data.

When your doctor uses a stethoscope to listen to your heart, he has you take a deep breath and hold it so your breath sounds don't interfere with your heart noise. Movement can interfere with  data from other instruments as well.  MRI, CAT, X ray, chewing gum while talking on the phone, trying to jot a note while riding your bicycle down a bumpy road. None of those things actually change what is happening, but  they can make the data difficult or impossible to interpret. Uninterpretable data is not indicative of truth or deception. It's just not interpretable.

Most people have no trouble at all remaining still long enough for a polygraph chart. FatBob, you stated you have been  in law enforcement for 8 years. Ever had anyone attempt to garbage a breath test by putting their tongue over the tube or intentionally belching into the machine? How many times did you suggest they follow instructions before you just marked them as refusing to cooperate and ended the process? Were there consequences for their inability to follow instructions? Did you consider their refusal or inability to do as they were told to be your fault or theirs?

Good examiners don't care whether you pass or fail. Their job is to collect interpretable data and render their opinion regarding the data collected during the exam as it relates to the subject under investigation. Contrary to what some people may try to get you to believe the outcome of the exam does not effect an examiners job any more than the amount of rain received effects the continued employment of a weatherman. 

If an agency is conducting polygraph screening on 10 applicants for 2 positions, those who pass their exam without problems end up at the top of the list. If an agency is unable to hire from those who pass, then they may schedule further polygraph for those with inconclusive results or simply repeat the application process with a new group of candidates until they have sufficient acceptable candidates for the available positions. Not being hired is not exactly the same as being rejected. Not being hired just means that based on the totality of the circumstances, they chose to hire someone they felt was more qualified. 

Employers get to make that decision and absent prejudicial or arbitrary practices they generally get to decide the definition of "qualified".  Will the employer make mistakes sometimes and miss the best qualified person ? Yes they will. Can the best qualified person do anything about it? Generally no.

A single reaction or interference on a single question in a question series over the course of an entire examination should be insufficient to render an opinion of deception. As I pointed out earlier, on a pre-employment polygraph, even if there were problems with a question throughout the test,the protocol approved by APA would require a follow up exam focused on the problem question before the examiner could render an opinion regarding deception. 

Their protocol is available on their web site as public information.

Based only upon what you have written here it appears to me that your were at worst inconclusive. If the examiner filed a report stating otherwise, you should lodge a complaint and have him defend his actions.
  
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