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Passed one but failed the next (Read 5970 times)

Lj Dendy Guest	Passed one but failed the next Mar 4^th, 2009 at 8:08am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Im in the United States Navy. i was accused of using illegal drugs. Cocaine to be exact. The navy aimed for admin seperation but i decided to fight it because i never used cocaine. I payed a examiner to give me a polygraph so i could present the results to my command and have my hearing dropped.I passed the test with flying colors says the examiner. After my lawyer presents it to the command they reported that they could not review a outside polygraph and that if i would consent to taking another polygraph by a NCIS agent and pass they would drop it. So of course i know i never done anything wrong. So i take this test. The 3 round test of the same questions mixed around....it comes back inconclusive....i consent to taking another so that results can be taken properly. The 2nd time it comes back deception indicated. How is it that i pass a Polygraph from a FBI agent that has had 20 years of experience but i cant pass one from a NCIS agent...im not understanding this and quite frankly it is very fustrating..PLEASE HELP!!!!


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6222 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Passed one but failed the next Reply #1 - Mar 4^th, 2009 at 9:52am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	You need to understand that polygraph testing is junk science. You can get different results from different polygraphers the same way you can get different fortune-tellings from different palm readers. That said, it's worth noting that polygrapher bias and expectations can also influence polygraph outcomes. The NCIS polygraphers had every incentive to reach a finding that supports your command's position. Think about it: the NCIS polygraphers must realize that had they passed you, their results would likely have been questioned and subjected to scrutiny. But by flunking you, they had nothing to lose.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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pailryder Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 441 Joined: Jun 5^th, 2006	Re: Passed one but failed the next Reply #2 - Mar 4^th, 2009 at 12:25pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Mr Maschke In a recent thread you provided a cite to a study that confirms, to my mind anyway, that CVSA is indeed junk science. Would you provide a similar peer reviewed study on polygraph to support your statement or are you merely stating your personal opinion?

	No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers. David Thoreson Lykken
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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6222 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Passed one but failed the next Reply #3 - Mar 4^th, 2009 at 12:35pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	pailryder, Sure. See, for example, Professor William G. Iacono's article, "Forensic 'Lie Detection': Procedures Without Scientific Basis."

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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pailryder Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 441 Joined: Jun 5^th, 2006	Re: Passed one but failed the next Reply #4 - Mar 4^th, 2009 at 1:25pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Mr Masche You have cited "a critical overview of the scientific status of the CQT", Dr Iacono's review of existing studies. I am asking to be directed to peer reviewed research studies conducted by anti's to support their opinions.

	No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers. David Thoreson Lykken
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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6222 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Passed one but failed the next Reply #5 - Mar 4^th, 2009 at 1:36pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	pailryder, Then see the studies cited in Iacono's article.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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T.M. Cullen God Member Offline Posts: 858 Location: Hawaii Joined: Dec 5^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: Passed one but failed the next Reply #6 - Mar 4^th, 2009 at 6:47pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: The 2nd time it comes back deception indicated. What? Did the polygraph operator actually use the term "deception indicated". Polygraphers on this board have stated repeatedly that the machine does not directly measure "deception"! Then how can they get away with using that phrase? Why don't they use "reaction indicated"? How bogus! TC

	"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)." Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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Lj Dendy Guest	Re: Passed one but failed the next Reply #7 - Mar 12^th, 2009 at 3:50pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Yes she specifically said "deception indicated". I then asked what questions showed reaction for my own knowledge and she said....All questions even the "known truth" questions. So.......if all questions were smiliar as for sensitivity wouldnt that still be considered "inconclusive" because technically you cant tell whether im lying or telling truth when the meter jumps on EVERY question. I know im not a polygraph expert but i dont understand.


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T.M. Cullen God Member Offline Posts: 858 Location: Hawaii Joined: Dec 5^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: Passed one but failed the next Reply #8 - Mar 12^th, 2009 at 6:14pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: Yes she specifically said "deception indicated" . WHAT? But according to Mr. Ed Earl (AKA Sancho Panza, Phil Queeg, Anonymous too), board polygrapher, they don't use that term for specific questions. Are you sure the polygraph operator used that term? I was accused of "overgeneralizing" when I suggested that polygraphers rroutinely use that term in describing reactions to specific questions, and therefore, tacitly claim the machine detects deception, which is doesn't. IOW, they (polygraphers) lie.

	"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)." Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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