This is not intended to be a post to break the rules or anything, but as someone in college currently aspiring to work in the intelligence/national security field for our country in the future I can't help but raise these concerns.

I am very detached from the professional nature in which many people speak on this forum. There are a lot of things I don't understand in some of the posts, especially George's. To be honest though, I am glad I found this website. I only accidentally stumbled upon it, and to be honest, after reading George W. Maschke's statement and the statements by a few others I felt sick and angry.

The primary reasons for this is because what your cases all suggest is that no matter how loyal you are to your country, no matter how many years you've served it in uniform, no matter how many letters of reccomendation you get and who they're from, no matter how much education you've got, the untimely tapping of your fingers, a random sweat, or an aberrant deep breath can screw you over. Any one of those tiny little things can ensure that you NEVER work for the federal government, because those act as red flags in a polygraph test. That one can be blacklisted from all agencies after years of endeavors to acquire a position in intelligence only because of a polygraph test result is truly shocking to me, and I never knew that this environment of coercion existed.

So now to why I have felt compelled to post about this. As someone still in college planning to work toward an ambitious academic goal and possibly military service to compliment an entry into the intelligence field, I need to know something. What the hell do I do? Where do I go from here? How do I ensure that the years ahead of me in my studies and my service do not get relegated to insignificance because of some tiny, inconclusive nervousness I might have? In perhaps less kind words, how do I make sure I don't turn out to be one of you guys here?

Just based on everything I've read - whether it's skimming the suggested countermeasures (I refuse to read them), the testimonials here, the history of the polygraph's use - I can pretty much guarantee you right now that if I were administered a polygraph test I would more than break a sweat with all of this stuff in mind. I don't see myself passing at all, and it's not because I have a skeleton in my closet.

Anyways, that's my rant, and I would really appreciate any help/responses to these concerns. 

P.S. Also, I noticed many people here thanking this website for their pass of the polygraph test. I would really like to know how it helped you. How is it it's less stressful to be administered such a test with all this knowledge about the machine you're hooked up to in the back of your head? How is it easier when there's that much more information to hide during the test?

I think you're missing a fundamental point though, LieBabyCryBaby. 

Not everyone who has posted here about how one of you guys ruined their life had even known about this site prior to being branded a false positive...I guess it would be relevant to mention that one of those people is the creator of this website.

Do you honestly think the host of this website knew 'countermeasures' prior to taking the polygraph? No. His crusade against them didn't begin until he got dealt a bad hand. So you can't tar them all with one brush. Sure maybe reading some CM info might increase the chances one could fail.

That's irrelevant though... one because that's not the only circumstance it can fail and two because it's not even the countermeasures that worry me. What worries me is the fact that my chances of being accepted into any government intelligence agency is basically a coin toss. A 50% chance. Not based on my record or the accuracy of what I say, but because a polygraph expert saw me 'tap my fingers' or 'sweat a little bit' then that means I shouldn't be hired. I'm sorry, but that's just a lot of you know what.

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With a preemployment polygraph at NSA/CIA/FBI it is NOT a bad chart reading that will do you in.  Like I've told you, the whole goal of this type of polygraph is to fluster you and "see what we can get you to say".  So it is more YOUR MOUTH, than a blip on a chart, that will do you in.   

At the NSA, if the hiring committee thinks you are a really promising applicant, they will have security test and retest you hoping you pass. They even retested me after I ripped the straps off my chest in a fit of anger and frustration during my polygraph!

But if you SAY something during the polygraph they can distort and use against you, THAT along with the chart is what will do you in.  A bad chart WITHOUT a confession leads to an "inconclusive" not a "fail"  And with the former, there is hope.

This is especially true for an existing employee taking a periodic update polygraph.  An existing employee can not be legally fired based solely on a polygraph CHART READING.   But what an employee SAYS during a periodic polygraph CAN be used to fire them!  So that should tell you something. 

Never forget it is an INTERROGATION, the machine is a fancy "prop".  And as with ANY "interrogation" it is "what they get out of you" that matters most.

So cheer up, go out and get drunk/laid this weekend.  And start fresh on Monday.

TC

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And you see, this is what's getting me here. I do not know which one of you to believe. In George's statement, he did not say anything that could be used against him. All he did was answer the questions with a yes or a no and then he was called a liar. That experience of his doesn't seem to flow with what you're saying, Cullen.

It seems either you got lucky, or he got a bad apple doing his poly test, or something else is going on here.

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I thought you said in another post that you shouldn't express anger or contest the polygraph results?

George W. Maschke wrote on Jan 31^st, 2009 at 4:08pm:


I'm confused about something. A polygraph's intent is to judge the honesty of an individual. How can someone fail a polygraph based on something they admit (which does not qualify under the Bureau/Agency's rules?)

...erm, in other words, I'm saying that the polygraph's chart isn't affected by what you openly admit, it only gets affected by whether you feel pressure upon hearing a certain question, which may make you react emotionally in ways to modify the chart reading. So how can an admission make you fail a polygraph?

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Meaning that the experience people like yourself have had is not going on at DoD?

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Speaking of admissions. It was posted by Cullen in another thread that if you let the polygrapher know, in any way shape or form, that you are aware of the existence of this website and aware to some extent that there are countermeasures or even criticisms of the polygraph device, then you will be failed or disqualified. Is this true? So, what am I supposed to say when they ask the question, "Are you aware of any anti-polygraph website, or are you aware of the existence of any counter-measures to the device you are being administered with?" I would almost certainly have to lie to get past such a question, or face the consequences (whatever they are) of telling the truth and letting it be known that I have read this website.

Also isn't it possible that the government is able to see who visits this site? I know that might sound a bit paranoid, but I'm going to ask that question anyway.

I feel like I have made my efforts even harder just having found this website.

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"Yes, Mr. Polygrapher, I did try to research the polygraph a little, but I found that there is so much controversy over the topic, it quite honestly, just confused me!  So how accurate is it?  98%?  Wow!  That's pretty accurate!"

That would be a TRUTH statement, wouldn't it.  As opposed to:

"Look, this test is bogus!  98% accurate?  Yeah right!  I went to 'anti-polygraph.com' and got the real facts about this so-called test of yours!  I'm not going to fall for your tricks Mr. Polygrapher!"

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I seriously doubt that.  Is your name really Ghon?

TC

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I mainly mean if they try to tell you the machine is detecting deception on your part, or that something must be "bothering you", when in fact you are NOT being deceptive, and nothing is bothering you about your answers leave it at that.   

They WANT you to start yapping your jaws off and tell them your life story to see if you give them anything "juicy".  But if you answer the relevant questions truthfully (e.g. about drug usage...etc.)?  Then you are not hiding anything!  You've disclosed all drug usage, criminal activity if any, indebtedness...etc.!

Some polygraphers here have suggested people write down anything that could possible have bothered you about the questions.  But if there is nothing bothering you (other than the fact they say you're lying when answering the question, when you ain't) what is there to write?   

It's a game to see what they can get you to say.  They want to totally focused on the machine, to believe the machine!  The machine is good, the machine is invincible.  You must be "one with the machine"!  They want you to speculate, and delve into your inner mind.  To ponder your soul and see what is there. All to make the machine like you.  All so the machine takes pity on your soul.  They do it so well, they make you forget the original freaking questions!  But that is EXACTLY what you should be focusing on, the original relevant questions.   

"Gee Mr. Polygrapher, there is nothing bothering me about that question, and I have answered it truthfully.  What more do you want me to say?"  What is so hard about saying that?

Anything you say in addition to that concerning relevant questions should not be anything that would "raise any eyebrows".  And believe me, that are real good at getting you to say some pretty embarrassing things! 

If there are control questions, you can consider using CMs, but you need to be able to identify control questions, know how (and when) to employ CMs,  George is the guy to talk about that.  But you probably don't have enuf time for that.   


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No, I was an applicant given a conditional offer at GS-13.  All I had to do was pass the polygraph.  Which i took for granted (after all i passed one five years earlier).  And ended up failing and was not hired.  So now I live on the North Shore or Oahu manage real estate and write pornographic novels in the evenings

TC

P.S.  Stop overthinking and worrying.  You're starting to remind me of me!

Ghon

Examiners assume educated subjects google and find these sites.  The information available at these sites can be useful, but the problem is the overwhelming amount of information spun to support one point of view.  I estimate it would take a year for the average person to read and understand what is presented at this site alone.  You are asking people who hate polygraph to tell you what polygraph examiners think.  They think they know, but they do not.  Their reasoning is colored by their hate.  I can tell you that there is no single point of view in our community about this question.

I suggest you pose your question on a pro site and see what examiners, the ones who really know, have to say.    

Candid honesty is the best policy, not a sure thing, but the way to go.