Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How do I react to control questions? (Read 38587 times)
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How do I react to control questions?
Sep 25th, 2008 at 11:09pm
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I have been perusing this forum after a horrible polygraph experience. I can relate to most of the posts here. Rather than boring you with my story, I just have a question. I keep seeing people say things like:

"The key to passing is to show stronger reactions to the "control" questions than to the relevant questions. The best strategy for accomplishing this result is to covertly augment reactions to the "control" questions."

In theory that makes complete sense. But exactly how can you augment your reactions to the control questions?
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box T.M. Cullen
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Re: How do I react to control questions?
Reply #1 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 2:22am
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Poly,

Since you are new and fresh , I ask you a question our resident polygrapher has asked.  Why would you come to a site populated by people who have FAILED the polygraph, for advice on the polygraph?

TC
  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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Re: How do I react to control questions?
Reply #2 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 4:00am
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Mr. Cullen

Poly-ana  doesn't qualify under the confines of the question because she has apparently joined the "already failed a polygraph group" due to what she calls a "horrible polygraph experience"

Once again  Please read the question carefully. 

Why should someone who is wants to pass a polygraph examination seek advice on how to pass one, from a group of people who failed?          It's kind of like getting tips on how to pass a field sobriety test from a bunch of convicted drunk drivers.

If it still isn't clear please read the clarification I wrote for Sergeant in response to his non-answer.
It's not a trick question.


btw I see you still think I'm a polygrapher.

Sancho Panza
  

Quand vous citez des langues que vous ne parlez pas afin de sembler intellegent, vous vous avérez seulement que votre tête est gonflée mais videz.
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: How do I react to control questions?
Reply #3 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 4:15am
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Quote:
In theory that makes complete sense. But exactly how can you augment your reactions to the control questions?


Techniques for doing this include cognitive activity such as thinking frightening or exiting thoughts, doing mental arithmetic, or biting the side of the tongue. You'll find more on this in Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector:

https://antipolygraph.org/lie-behind-the-lie-detector.pdf
  

George W. Maschke
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Re: How do I react to control questions?
Reply #4 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 6:24am
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Why should someone who is wants to pass a polygraph examination seek advice on how to pass one, from a group of people who failed?


1.  It's not really an "examination", it's an interview/interrogation.   So the terms pass/fail aren't even applicable.   

2.  People have "failed" despite telling the truth.

3.  They, like most of the public, thought all they had to do is tell the truth, and they would, as you would say "pass".

4.  THEREFORE, there is a lot a person about to take thid so-called "examination" could learn from those people (i.e. those who "failed" despite telling the truth).

You present the question in terms of passing or failing a test.

NG1's analogy of "falling for", or "NOT falling for" a scam is more accurate.

So, what is the point in answering your question, when your question is misleading?

TC

P.S.  A person also wanting to invent the light bulb walked up to Tom Edison one day asking for advice.  At that point, Edison had failed miserably at the task.  Sancho's GGF, a well know alchemist, walked up to this man and said:  "HAH!  Why would you ask advice from a person who has failed so many times to accomplish what you are trying to do?!  Why don't you come to work for me.  I'm attempting to convert pigeon droppings into lemon drops!"
« Last Edit: Sep 26th, 2008 at 6:42am by T.M. Cullen »  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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Re: How do I react to control questions?
Reply #5 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 12:28pm
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Mr. Cullen, Once again you try to change the question so you can construct a convenient answer. But your answer doesn't address the question.

I think that it's time that you face the fact that your view of polygraph is based only on your limited experience and that in order to discuss the topic you have to manipulate the discussion to fit your circumstance. Because your knowledge and experience is so limited it prevents you from discussing the related issues that a more investigatory approach to the subject would allow. Notguilty1 and Sergeant have similar issues in this regard.

You have shown that you absolutely cannot answer this simple straightforward question because it doesn't fit your experience or allow you to speak about failure in your personal context. Instead you spout the same old "bullet points" even though they aren't responsive. You seem to want to make people believe they are relevant to this question and they aren't.

Yet, even though you lack the apparent ability to conceptualize the question from its existing point of view , instead of realizing that the question may be outside your ability to answer, you find yourself unable avoid offering SOME kind of response. You just can't seem to resist an opportunity to spout the same old stuff, and in doing so try to inhibit someone who might have a fresh point of view from answering the question.

The quote I use sometimes "Frogs at the bottom of a well see only a small part of the sky" really points at those who try to define a subject based on a severly limited point of view.

You, Notguilty1, Sergeant, and Dr.Maschke have taken polygraphs and failed them. Dr. Maschke has researched possible countermeasures and collected stories that seem to support his point of view even though some require a little twisting to fit.

I on the other hand have taken polygraphs, I have observed polygraphs including people who passed, people who failed and confessed and people who failed and didn't confess. I have seen people who failed and didn't confess later convicted of the crime they were tested on. In addition I have read and researched quite a bit of the existing literature, but I didn't limit myself to excerpts from the NAS study, I even read Dr. Maschke's and Doug Williams books to make sure I looked at BOTH sides of the issue.

Whether we agree or disagree, I submit that my point of view is a bit broader than your own.  

Sancho Panza

PS  The most obvious difference between Dr. Maschke and Doug Williams is that I would describe one as a mis-guided but sincere crusader and the other as an unscrupulous profiteer.

SP
  

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Re: How do I react to control questions?
Reply #6 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 2:37pm
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And then there are those people who have no option or severely limited options and so they have to dwell at the bottom of the well,
not being permitted a broader view.
  
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Re: How do I react to control questions?
Reply #7 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 4:15pm
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I see polytek has returned barking one-liners from under the porch.   

Have you ever in your entire life, (not just on here) contributed anything substantive to a discussion?


Sancho Panza
  

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Re: How do I react to control questions?
Reply #8 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 4:21pm
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Excuse me  I should have said anything more substantive than the directions you gave to "Wanda Loo aka jojo22" on how to find their tongue.  That advice gave us all a very clear picture of where your coming from and what you are tryng to accomplish.

I would not be the least suprised to find that you write grafitti on the wall of your bathroom at home.

Sancho Panza
  

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Re: How do I react to control questions?
Reply #9 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 4:39pm
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SanchoPanza wrote on Sep 26th, 2008 at 4:00am:
Mr. Cullen

Poly-ana  doesn't qualify under the confines of the question because she has apparently joined the "already failed a polygraph group" due to what she calls a "horrible polygraph experience"

Once again  Please read the question carefully.  

Why should someone who is wants to pass a polygraph examination seek advice on how to pass one, from a group of people who failed?          It's kind of like getting tips on how to pass a field sobriety test from a bunch of convicted drunk drivers.

If it still isn't clear please read the clarification I wrote for Sergeant in response to his non-answer.
It's not a trick question.


btw I see you still think I'm a polygrapher.

Sancho Panza



OK Sancho I will play your game since the shell game has been exposed.
A person that was trying to pass a Polygraph would seek advice from a bunch of people that have failed because since, many have at least heard of the invalidity of the "test" would want to know what others have experienced in this regard. And if in fact telling the truth would not assure a pass ( which it doesn't).

There are enough people who have failed despite telling the truth that we do have advice to give, if nothing more than tell them what happens during the test in all it's glory. Even tough you don't see it that way.
Your example of people seeking to pass a field sobriety test getting advice from convicted drunk drivers has absolutely no validity here since, breathalyzer evidence alone has, and does convict drunk drivers in ALL 50 states daily, polygraphs ........ NOT

So, Sancho, if your going to make comparisons lets's compare apples to apples not apples to crystal balls!
There now, your question has been answered but I am sure not to your satisfaction.


  
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Re: How do I react to control questions?
Reply #10 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 6:27pm
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Your example of people seeking to pass a field sobriety test getting advice from convicted drunk drivers has absolutely no validity here since, breathalyzer evidence alone has, and does convict drunk drivers in ALL 50 states daily, polygraphs ........ NOT


The key words are "direct" and "unequivocal".

Breathalyzer's directly measure a person's level of inebriation.  Polygraphs directly measures a person's F3 (fight, flight, freeze) response to a question, not truthfulness.

And the results from a breathanlyzer, therefore are unequivocal.  You are X% drunk.  Polygraph results are not unequivocal.  F3 responses are not unique to deception.  An F3 reaction, could be explained by other reasons.  If one is told they are having trouble with a given question (biased against that question), each time that question is asked they might well react to it.  Then again, never forget the polygraph is not really a test, as the ultimate goal is not to measure truthfulness, but to elicit information. 

TC

P.S.  If you disagree with me, then you are a complete idiot, and probably work for the Iranians!
  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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Re: How do I react to control questions?
Reply #11 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 6:46pm
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SanchoPanza wrote on Sep 26th, 2008 at 4:00am:
Why should someone who is wants to pass a polygraph examination seek advice on how to pass one, from a group of people who failed?


To learn from other's "mistakes"? Is it really that difficult to understand?
  
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Re: How do I react to control questions?
Reply #12 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 8:04pm
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We could argue the error rate of breath analysis using a breathalyzer or I could point out that failing a breathalyzer is not, in and of itself, sufficient to convict someone of drunk driving,  but it doesn't have anything to do with the question I asked.

Again you are trying to change the question and the comparison to suit yourself so you can provide the answer you want. Just admit you can't think of why someone would consult failures for tips on passing.

BTW a breathalyzer doesn't  directly measure a person's level of inebriation.It does not provide a reading of "You are X% drunk" It provides a statistical inference correlating the amount of alcohol in a sibject's bloodstream based on an analysis of alcohol in a breath sample. That really has little to do with how "Drunk" someone is which is a subjective statement concerning the appearance of the level of impairment or the observable behaviors of someone who has been drinking.  A BAC of 0.10% may make a 98 pound coed so drunk she can't walk while the same BAC in a 300 pound linebacker might be undetectable depending on drinking history, metabolism, tolerance for alcohol, or percentage of body fat absent a chemical test.

Arguably if you could practice the Standardized Filed Sobriety Test to the point of perfection even while your BAC was above the legal limit, you would have developed a countermeasure that would effectively keep you from being arrested for DUI or submitting to a breathalyzer or intoxilyzer.  If this is what you were trying to do, why would you consult convicted drunk drivers since in all probability they lack the skills necessary to pass a field sobriety test or they wouldn't have been convicted in the first place.

That is why consulting people who failed polygraph test for tips on how to pass seems like a fooloish endeavor.

Sancho Panza

Cullen  If your PS is intended as a tongue in cheek attampt at humor, my response is very funny hahaha.     If it was meant as an ad hominum attack, my response to you is Let's play horsey, I'll be the "head end" and you can just be yourself.

SP
  

Quand vous citez des langues que vous ne parlez pas afin de sembler intellegent, vous vous avérez seulement que votre tête est gonflée mais videz.
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Re: How do I react to control questions?
Reply #13 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 8:42pm
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Wow, I just came here for a little advice and it seems a pissing contest has broken out. For everyone's information.... yes, I have failled the polygraph... twice. So that gives me every right to be here seeking advice and learn from other people's mistakes.

I can't help but wonder why Pancho is here other than to chastise people? I may not have broad experience in the field, but I know that I have told the absolute truth and still failed two times. I don't need any more data than that to know that the polygraph is complete rubish!
  
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Re: How do I react to control questions?
Reply #14 - Sep 26th, 2008 at 8:44pm
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Correction to the above post:

I don't why Sancho is here.

  
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How do I react to control questions?

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