Normal Topic worried....pre-test/minor admissions (Read 4610 times)
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worried....pre-test/minor admissions
Mar 30th, 2008 at 2:55pm
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I have been dealing with a situation for a long time and now it looks like my only way for ending it quickly is taking a polygraph,unfourtunatley. I have had plenty of notice before hand so I have conducted as much research as I can on the topic and it is amazing how many innocent people go down on this hunk-o-junk. I definatly plan on using counter measures but I have a few questions.

1. Do I use a CM on the pre-test? Card and numbers game.
2. Is it is ok to make minor admissions on control questions? Such as; have you ever told a lie or have you ever stolen something? Does that make them feel more in control, playing into them?
3. Is there a way to tell if the chair is equipped with a pressure sensitive pad? Maybe a cord coming from it?
4. Do they ask Logical Falicies?
  
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Re: worried....pre-test/minor admissions
Reply #1 - Mar 30th, 2008 at 4:09pm
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Well,  based on your posting it would appear that you either guilty or gullible.

Yes, Yes, Yes.  Countermeasures at everything!  And please do them well, hard and strong.

As for movement sensors, what does it matter?  You're going to use CM's to pass and no examiner has demonstrated any ability to catch them, so who cares.

good luck, oh no, you don't need luck, you have TLBTLD... Wink

  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: worried....pre-test/minor admissions
Reply #2 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 6:34am
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Northwest42 wrote on Mar 30th, 2008 at 2:55pm:
1. Do I use a CM on the pre-test? Card and numbers game.


Note that this procedure is called an acquaintance or stimulation (or "stim") test. Yes, one would want to augment reactions during it. Not for the purpose of thwarting it, but rather to confirm the expected result and reinforce the polygrapher's belief that you will react strongly when untruthfully answering a question. So if you wrote the number 5, you would want to augment reactions when asked, "Did you write the number 5?"

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2. Is it is ok to make minor admissions on control questions? Such as; have you ever told a lie or have you ever stolen something? Does that make them feel more in control, playing into them?


Yes, it is okay to make minor admissions such as to petty theft, pilferage of office supplies, or having lied to a loved one. Most people have done such things, and polygraphers are accustomed to hearing minor admissions. What would really make the polygrapher feel in control and stroke his ego is to make an admission to something personally embarrassing (but not incriminating and completely unrelated to the relevant issue), even if it's made up, and prefacing it with words to the effect of, "I'm so embarrassed, but when I was ... I .... You're the only person I've ever told about this."

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3. Is there a way to tell if the chair is equipped with a pressure sensitive pad? Maybe a cord coming from it?


Seat pads are generally not hidden, but are laid out in plain sight and are connected to the polygraph instrument by visible cables. Polygraphers hope that this equipment will not only help to detect potential countermeasures, but to deter examinees from employing them.

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4. Do they ask Logical Falicies?


I'm not sure what you mean. Could you give an example?

See Chapters 3 & 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector for a detailed explanation of polygraph procedure, including the kinds of questions you're likely to encounter, as well as a detailed explanation of polygraph countermeasures.
  

George W. Maschke
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Re: worried....pre-test/minor admissions
Reply #3 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 7:52am
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Northwest,

I don't know where you've been doing your research, but the polygraph is 95-98% accurate.  So your best bet is to go in there and tell them everything you know.  Including the fact that you've spoken to GM.

And by all means, mention the NAS report.  Don't worry, they won't take offense.  They are professionals.  They don't bring their ego into the examination room with them.  Pretty thick skinned people, these poligraphers.

Confide in your examiner, they are there to help!

OMG!  That's a joke son!
  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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Re: worried....pre-test/minor admissions
Reply #4 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 2:16pm
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logical falicies are like if you are on trial for a drug offense and the attorney asks "When did you stop using drugs?". 


I would like to thank everyone for their input, it is much appreciated! Smiley     My test is coming up very soon.
  
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Re: worried....pre-test/minor admissions
Reply #5 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 2:41pm
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Questions that beg another question (such as "When did you stop using drugs?" when you haven't acknowledged using drugs, or "Have you stopped beating your wife?" when you have made no admission of doing so) should not be asked during the in-test phase of a polygraph examination (that is, the series of questions you'll be asked while hooked-up to the polygraph instrument), though they might be employed as a tactic in the course of a possible post-test interrogation. Note also that questions asked during the in-test phase will be yes-no questions.

You haven't stated the reason for your upcoming polygraph test, but if it is because you are suspected of a crime, I think it would be wise to refuse the polygraph and seek competent legal counsel. As used by police, the polygraph "test" is often little more than a pretext for interrogating a suspect in the absence of legal counsel, and the suspect's "failing" may be foreordained. Such interrogation may include tactics such as food and sleep deprivation, threats, and false promises of leniency in exchange for an admission. One should be especially wary if police offer to drive one to the polygraph site. By doing so, they're not doing the suspect a favor, but putting him in the psychologically disadvantaged position of being less than free to leave.
  

George W. Maschke
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Re: worried....pre-test/minor admissions
Reply #6 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 4:53pm
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Remember, that the result of the polygraph test you are about to take is the OPINION  of the examiner, based upon the ASSUMPTION that any abnormal physiological reactions to the relevant questions are a result of lying.  Additionally, the abnormal physiological reactions themselves are considered abnormal because the examiner ASSUMES you told little white lies in response to the control questions.

Science at it's finest... Embarrassed
  

"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams."  (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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Re: worried....pre-test/minor admissions
Reply #7 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 7:59pm
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The reason i am taking this is because of criminal charges. I, stating the obvious, am innocent and am doing the polygraph through my lawyer. I am confidant that I will pass, especially after reading tlbtld!

My last question is approximately how long does this test go?
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: worried....pre-test/minor admissions
Reply #8 - Mar 31st, 2008 at 8:13pm
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A polygraph interrogation will typically last between one and three hours. If you'd like to watch a video of a polygraph session that was arranged by a lawyer for a client, you can do so here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7392128883217359710

For commentary on this polygraph examination, see my Critique of Louis I. Rovner's Polygraph Examination and Testimony in Ohio v. Sharma.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
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