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AntiPolygraph.org Message Board › Polygraph and CVSA Forums › Polygraph Procedure › A guestion for nopolycop

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A guestion for nopolycop (Read 1795 times)

pailryder Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 441 Joined: Jun 5^th, 2006	A guestion for nopolycop Mar 25^th, 2008 at 3:32pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	You seem to me one of the rare posters willing to consider the possibility that each side makes some valid points. The take no prisoners attitude on both sides, while occasionally entertaining, in the end wears thin and produces, by design I think, far more heat than light. I have never held a sworn position in a LEA, but have consulted in many LEA investigations. Most LEA investigators in private conversation between the second and third beer will tell me something to this effect. I know you can't really tell when someone is lying, but I believe polygraph is a useful confession wedge. This attitude, I believe accounts for the growing acceptance of CVSA in the LE community. The GM often dismisses poly into the realm of astrology, tarot reading and assorted quackery. Knowing that he is a knowledgeable and intelligent person, I am undecided if these are tongue in cheek comments to provoke our side or if they express his true convictions. My question for you, should you be so kind as to respond, is in two parts. First, did I fairly characterize the opinion of a significant segment of the LE community? Second, is there any legitimate place for polygraph in a criminal LEA investigation?

	No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers. David Thoreson Lykken
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nopolycop Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 383 Joined: Oct 20^th, 2007	Re: A guestion for nopolycop Reply #1 - Mar 25^th, 2008 at 4:15pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	pailryder wrote on Mar 25^th, 2008 at 3:32pm: My question for you, should you be so kind as to respond, is in two parts. First, did I fairly characterize the opinion of a significant segment of the LE community? Second, is there any legitimate place for polygraph in a criminal LEA investigation? Number ONe: No, I don't think so. I think way too many LE investigators place way too much emphasis on the polygraph. For example, I am currently a private consultant on a murder investigation, where the LEA wrote the murder off as a suicide, even though there is a mountain of evidence to the contrary. The reason? A passed polygraph, (which had it's own problems), but that is an other story. Another obvious glaring example is Gary Ridgway, who, after passing a police polygraph (a single issue polygraph, BTW) went on and killed more women and escaped detection because the King County Sheriff's Dept. believed in the accuracy of the polygraph, and took him off the suspect list. On the other hand, LE also tends to focus in on suspects once they fail a polygraph, to the detriment of finding the actual suspect. If you work in a geographic area where the investigators actually know and understand the limitations of the poly, then hurray. Number Two: Absolutely. When there is reasonable suspicion to believe a person is guility of a crime, put him on the polygraph and see what happens. It is another tool, but don't judge his guilt or innocence on the poly. In addition, if the criminal search narrows the list of suspects down to 2-3 logical suspects, then offer them the polygraph option. See what happens. Again though, don't place too much reliance upon the results of any given polygraph.

	"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams." (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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pailryder Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 441 Joined: Jun 5^th, 2006	Re: A guestion for nopolycop Reply #2 - Mar 25^th, 2008 at 8:42pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	NOW I am confused! Your answer to question one is no, LE guys don't think like that and your answer to question 2 is only if its used as a confession wedge?

	No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers. David Thoreson Lykken
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notguilty1 Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 300 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2008	Re: A guestion for nopolycop Reply #3 - Mar 25^th, 2008 at 11:38pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	pailryder wrote on Mar 25^th, 2008 at 3:32pm: You seem to me one of the rare posters willing to consider the possibility that each side makes some valid points. The take no prisoners attitude on both sides, while occasionally entertaining, in the end wears thin and produces, by design I think, far more heat than light. I have never held a sworn position in a LEA, but have consulted in many LEA investigations. Most LEA investigators in private conversation between the second and third beer will tell me something to this effect. I know you can't really tell when someone is lying, but I believe polygraph is a useful confession wedge. This attitude, I believe accounts for the growing acceptance of CVSA in the LE community. The GM often dismisses poly into the realm of astrology, tarot reading and assorted quackery. Knowing that he is a knowledgeable and intelligent person, I am undecided if these are tongue in cheek comments to provoke our side or if they express his true convictions. My question for you, should you be so kind as to respond, is in two parts. First, did I fairly characterize the opinion of a significant segment of the LE community? Second, is there any legitimate place for polygraph in a criminal LEA investigation? I know your post was for nonploycop but since you put it on the forum I guess anyone can respond so..... I will The fact that a Poligraph is a good tool to induce a possible accurate confession does not in itself bolster the idea that Poligraphs are in fact accurate. This is why many examiners are on here trying to discredit what you said in your post, " I know that you really can't tell if someone is lying" They and the Poligraph industry rely on the general publics perception that Polygraphs do detect lies thus they are able to use them as a tool not to in fact detect lies but to get confessions which may be false confessions at that. That is why it is so important for the examiners to get on here and try to keep as many people beleiving as they can. So, compairing Polygraphs to astrology, tarrot cards and assorted quackery when it comes to doing what is claimed that it can is in fact accurate.


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A guestion for nopolycop

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