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Inconclusive - Advice for next time? (Read 13949 times)

sackett Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 347 Joined: Jan 31^st, 2008	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #15 - Mar 23^rd, 2008 at 1:43am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	notguilty1 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2008 at 8:34pm: sackett wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2008 at 2:19pm: Sarge, it seems to me that being 100% truthful is NOT something one has to "figure out." Sackett Well, Truth is that being 100% truthfull does not ensure you a passed Poligraph test!! Well, usually it does. I suppose some on this board would in fact be the exception... BTW, polygraph is with a "Y", not an "i." Sackett


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Sergeant1107 God Member Offline Posts: 730 Location: Connecticut, USA Joined: May 21^st, 2005 Gender:	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #16 - Mar 23^rd, 2008 at 4:22am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	sackett wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2008 at 2:19pm: Sarge, it seems to me that being 100% truthful is NOT something one has to "figure out." Sackett The aspect of his experience he is likely trying to "figure out" is how he could be truthful during his polygraph and not pass with flying colors. I think that would be enough to make any reasonable person doubt the accuracy of the polygraph.

	Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous êtes intellectuellement faillite.
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T.M. Cullen God Member Offline Posts: 858 Location: Hawaii Joined: Dec 5^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #17 - Mar 23^rd, 2008 at 4:25am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: The aspect of his experience he is likely trying to "figure out" is how he could be truthful during his polygraph and not pass with flying colors. I think that would be enough to make any reasonable person doubt the accuracy of the polygraph. Well thats just rubbish! How could one tell the truth yet fail. You are misleading the innocent. Sackett knows what is talking about. If one were telling the truth, he'd know it. You must be one of those venomous "antis". TC

	"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)." Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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notguilty1 Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 300 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2008	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #18 - Mar 23^rd, 2008 at 4:33am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Sergeant1107 wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2008 at 4:22am: sackett wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2008 at 2:19pm: Sarge, it seems to me that being 100% truthful is NOT something one has to "figure out." Sackett The aspect of his experience he is likely trying to "figure out" is how he could be truthful during his polygraph and not pass with flying colors. I think that would be enough to make any reasonable person doubt the accuracy of the polygraph. Hey Sarge, Well see, we all understand what your saying and it makes perfect sense, except of course ..... Sakett!! He doesen't know how many examinees have passed because they were truthfull in thier answers as he doesn't know how many failed even though they were truthfull. Unless you want to believe that his " answer anaylisis" is even more accurate than the Polygraph.


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sackett Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 347 Joined: Jan 31^st, 2008	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #19 - Mar 28^th, 2008 at 3:09pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	T.M. Cullen wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2008 at 4:25am: Quote: The aspect of his experience he is likely trying to "figure out" is how he could be truthful during his polygraph and not pass with flying colors. I think that would be enough to make any reasonable person doubt the accuracy of the polygraph. Well thats just rubbish! How could one tell the truth yet fail. You are misleading the innocent. Sackett knows what is talking about. If one were telling the truth, he'd know it. You must be one of those venomous "antis". TC Oh yeah!? Well, well, uh.... well, you don't have poetry written about you, now do ya!???


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notguilty1 Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 300 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2008	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #20 - Mar 28^th, 2008 at 3:18pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	sackett wrote on Mar 28^th, 2008 at 3:09pm: T.M. Cullen wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2008 at 4:25am: Quote: The aspect of his experience he is likely trying to "figure out" is how he could be truthful during his polygraph and not pass with flying colors. I think that would be enough to make any reasonable person doubt the accuracy of the polygraph. Well thats just rubbish! How could one tell the truth yet fail. You are misleading the innocent. Sackett knows what is talking about. If one were telling the truth, he'd know it. You must be one of those venomous "antis". TC Oh yeah!? Well, well, uh.... well, you don't have poetry written about you, now do ya!??? Gotta admit that is true! And funny man!


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Twoblock God Member Offline Posts: 732 Location: AR. Joined: Oct 15^th, 2002 Gender:	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #21 - Mar 28^th, 2008 at 6:01pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Sackett Glad you reminded of poetry being written about you. Here's some more. Written good-naturedly of coarse at you're expense. Another office hanger for you. Hope you take it as lightly as it was written. Last verse of "The Boxer" My favorite song of Simon & Garfunkel. "The Polygrapher" In the clearing stands a polygrapher a liar by his trade and he carries the reminder of every CM that put him down or cut him til he cried out In his anger and his shame "I am leaving, I am leaving" but the polygrapher still remains - ooh la la-la lalala Lie lie-lie , lie lie lie lie lie-lie lie, lie lie I have the other verses done, but don't have the time to print.


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applicant55 New User Offline Posts: 7 Joined: Mar 10^th, 2008	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #22 - Apr 1^st, 2008 at 3:34pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	UPDATE: I just found out that I failed the 2nd polygraph. I'm sure it comes as no surprise to many on this board, but I was 100% truthful on the relevant questions. What a sad, sad day!


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #23 - Apr 1^st, 2008 at 3:48pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	applicant55, I am saddened, but not surprised, to learn of this (all too common) outcome. You'll want to be sure to contest the polygraph results in writing. If you ever apply for any job that requires a security clearance, your FBI file will be checked and the fact that you "failed a lie detector test" will come to the attention of adjudicators. Your letter disputing the polygrapher's accusation that you lied should be added to your FBI file and is important for the purpose of documenting your disagreement with the results.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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nopolycop Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 383 Joined: Oct 20^th, 2007	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #24 - Apr 1^st, 2008 at 5:37pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	applicant55 wrote on Apr 1^st, 2008 at 3:34pm: UPDATE: I just found out that I failed the 2nd polygraph. I'm sure it comes as no surprise to many on this board, but I was 100% truthful on the relevant questions. What a sad, sad day! When you told them how the test worked, and they knew that you knew, you were destined to fail. You see, the FBI will not tolerate individualist thinking. The FBI is like the Borg, (you will be assimilated). If you fight assimilation, you will be killed, (or in this instance, not hired). I know several retired FBI agents, none of them were happy, and they all retired as soon as they could. You are better off...

	"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams." (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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applicant55 New User Offline Posts: 7 Joined: Mar 10^th, 2008	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #25 - Apr 1^st, 2008 at 7:32pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	nopolycop wrote on Apr 1^st, 2008 at 5:37pm: I know several retired FBI agents, none of them were happy, and they all retired as soon as they could. Without going into specifics, part of my job at the FBI would have been to change that mentality (futile or not)!


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nopolycop Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 383 Joined: Oct 20^th, 2007	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #26 - Apr 1^st, 2008 at 9:33pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	applicant55 wrote on Apr 1^st, 2008 at 7:32pm: nopolycop wrote on Apr 1^st, 2008 at 5:37pm: I know several retired FBI agents, none of them were happy, and they all retired as soon as they could. Without going into specifics, part of my job at the FBI would have been to change that mentality (futile or not)! Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated...

	"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams." (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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applicant55 New User Offline Posts: 7 Joined: Mar 10^th, 2008	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #27 - Apr 3^rd, 2008 at 7:52pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	George W. Maschke wrote on Apr 1^st, 2008 at 3:48pm: You'll want to be sure to contest the polygraph results in writing. Does anyone have a good example letter or template to use for disputing the results and requesting a re-test? Also, should I file a Privacy Act request? And if so, should I do this concurrent with the dispute/re-test letter or should I wait until after the "appeal" process is concluded?


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nopolycop Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 383 Joined: Oct 20^th, 2007	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #28 - Apr 7^th, 2008 at 2:51pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I would suggest a letter coming from your attorney. It will get much more attention than one yourself. Explain in the letter in clear terms what you are asking for, and that you expect a response within a reasonable amout of time, (setting a date) or an explanation by said date as to why they cannot fulfill your request for information.

	"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams." (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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applicant55 New User Offline Posts: 7 Joined: Mar 10^th, 2008	Re: Inconclusive - Advice for next time? Reply #29 - Apr 7^th, 2008 at 6:09pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	nopolycop wrote on Apr 7^th, 2008 at 2:51pm: I would suggest a letter coming from your attorney. It will get much more attention than one yourself. Are you suggesting that I get a lawyer to draft my request to be retested? I appreciate the advice, but my understanding is that granting a retest request is a subjective decision and I'm concerned that too harsh of a letter will not be received well. I know it's a long shot, but I still want to try and get this job!


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