TwoBlock,

   I appreciate you have an eight year investment on this site, and that you view George as a victim whether that be founded or not.  The comparisons you ask as to why a particular agency did or did not do something comes down to priorities.  We don't know in the time frame of reference what other priorities took precedent, and you are taking GM's version as gospel.  He represented Trimarco as professional in what otherwise may have been a normal work day for him.  Between You and GM you have wondered why GM was NOT more of a priority, and I can not account for that.  I acknowlege GM's unique talents and education, but also see clearly that had he not jumped the gun and turned on his breatheren that the government would have come to him in the war on terror, rather than the creation of this site which is seen as not only Anti-polygraph; but viewed as Anti-U.S. Government.  The fact it is done from foreign soil makes it all the worse.  Further, that GM is involved in ongoing contact with foreign nationals who are themselves anti-U.S., and their acquired knowledge of how to attempt distortion in a polygraph, is inconsistent with an oath that most of us feel is a life long commitment; in our words, deeds, writings, and actions.  YOU as John Q. Public could do so, but a former Intelligence Officer has a more sacred commitment. 

That GM did NOT move forward in the process with the FBI, or seperately with LAPD are not necessarily connected.  We can't get many of the Federal agancies to talk to each other, and so the presumption the FBI and LAPD are in constant communication is a long stretch.  I find it hard to believe that those two examiners, at two different levels of government, would have any need to talk to one another, as their caseloads are different.  They tend to be internally oriented and not externally so. Also, remember that GM was applying for a job, not being tested specifically as a subversive, so no arrest was ever pending in either test.  Therefore, no arrest(s) ever contimplated.   

  I have tried to point out that the one common denominator that I see occuring on this site is that posters here show a common theme in "They did not pick me despite a contingency offer of hire", and that somehow that agency allowed the job to go unfulfilled due to the polygraph outcome.  We can all agree that the agency has its own selfish interest and needs that it gets met, and that somebody perhaps better qualified got the job as it was most certainly filled.  Therefore, the Ego of many of these postings bothers me.  I have wondered if any of those not hired ever took the time or effort to go meet who WAS picked when and where possible.  I would want to know WHO beat me out in this competative world and why.  Maybe many fine applicants are / were processed who were well qualified, but due to consent decrees or affirmative action, or other goals, variables unknown to the applicant; they were not picked.  The polygraph is but one rung in the ladder.  For many law enforcement applicants, you can go ALL the way through the steps, and simply have your name put on a list which expires after a year or so, and then have to repeat the process after that expiration.   

  In regard to the old fashioned investigation you have referred to, that is nice in a theoretical world, but agencies have budgets, and only the treasury department can print up money, but not for their own use.   

  You will forgive my not being familiar with the law of the sea treaty, but let me just say I am not for our nation giving up our sovereignty to anyone, and especially not to the U.N..  That treaty though, if it is being forced rough shot into existance, if not the same as the use of the polygraph which has had and can show incremental progress over time as with other technology or processes.  Logically, in the free market, our government would buy something which could do the job better, but do date that apparatus has not appeared.  Good Men and Women, like you and your wife, work in the polygraph field, and to demonize them and their job creates a Machiavelian "Us or Them" mentality that is only a side track.  I guess I just hate to see anybody with a fine mind not use that gift to actually CREATE something, rather than destroy something.  Ask yourself this !! , if the same energy that is put into this site were put into creativity, then either the polygraph process would be improved, or surpassed.  Example; One such individual who has been accepted in all of the U.S. Circuit courts is Dr. Lawrence Farwell with so called Brain Fingerprinting.  A guy like that just doesn't have time for negativity, and is rather a pioneer.  GM has / or had that capability at such a PhD level, but instead went negative.  What is the real reward of that ?   

     TwoBlock,

YOU SAID:  "Are you trying to tell me that a failed FBI poly isn't a factor in the hiring process when the applicant is trying for other LE jobs? Do you think that the many, many posters here are lying when they say it was? "

I SAY:  The fact is that in the law enforcement community TODAY in 2008, there has never been a greater demand for applicants from generation X, as generation Y is retiring out rapidly.  Agencies which used to have policies of one having to reside in a certain area to even be an applicant, have loosened them, as they will take applicants practically from Mars if need be.  They really don't care how an applicant performed at some earlier time on another examiner's polygraph test, as they are footing the bill for Their Examiner to test the applicant NOW, and only care that the person be fully truthful and passes + looking at their admissions as to if said admissions would keep them from fulfilling the credibility test on the witness stand later.  As you may know, an Officer's testimony is the crown jewel which supports their reports, evidence collected, and observations made in the field.  That really is the bottom line. Your example of the Sgt. here is proof alone of that.

  In regard to your referencing the moderator's, or any other persons, prior FBI or other agency pre-employment screening, don't be confused about someone's failure to complete a process successfully (as opposed to those who did) with someone who instantly becomes a priority case or something.  That the moderator, or any other person, simply applied with an agency, and failed to clear is not on par with someone who is regarded as an active threat in a specific case being developed.  This is clearly the case as GM did in fact finish out his career as a Reserve Officer.  It would be proper for the FBI doing due dillagence to forward any concern to the Dept. of the Army, and for any follow up they would do internally to satisfy themselves the the maintanence of a security clearance.  That is not the same as testing an active known threat.  You have to see the priority difference. One is a passive case vs. active cases you are thinking of. Save your dollar then, as a donut is a treat you'll enjoy later.

YOU SAID:  "As I have said I know nothing about George's job. However, you are strongly accusing him of aiding the enemy. To have any credibility, you should tell us how you know this and show us proof of the accusations. If you can, then I doubt that many of us would stay with this website. Otherwise you are guilty of character assassination which is an actionable offence." 

I SAY:  Thank You for your honesty in wanting to evaluate the moderator and whether you and others would remain on this site if there were truth to what I have questioned here to him.   

Last night I posed the question directly and plainly to GM the moderator as to whether or not he had ever translated any Anti-Polygraph materials into Arabic or Farsi.  He denied having ever done so in a quick reply.  Whey I further asked as a follow up question as to if he had "Verbally" had discussed (Trained, Informed, Etc.) Anti-Polygraph / countermeasures with any middle eastern foreign national his reply, rather than NO, was rather that it was none of my business !!!   Since I can't take that as a NO, I will say it is more probably a YES !   Point Two;  George is mentioned several times on the internet as working in the Iran-United States Claims Tribunal in some capacity in the Hague.  I believe this to be a U.N. effort www.iusct.org/ ; where he has almost daily contact with radical Iranian government officials which has it's allegience to the U.N., and not to the USA.  The U.S. has not had formal diplomatic relations with Iran since 11/04/79 when our embassy was invaded in what is otherwise regarded as an act of war.  Our hostages were later released on 1/20/81 on Reagan's first day in office.  This body, in my limited understanding of it, exists to negotiate cross claims Iran and the U.S. have both for individuals and corporatons, and other concerns.  GM is an assett to that effort, which, 27 plus years later has accomplished little in holding radical Iran accountable for its actions.  They are a worse regime today than when they came to power.  Further, that GM can not say he has never discussed or informed people of this background (Iranian or other radical middle eastern types)  about anti-polygraph / countermeasure information, which clearly would have no less than inspired the articles he claims were written. I have simply connected the dots between who it is that is empassioned about this subject, who they are in contact with, and that he tells me itis none of my business that he has had at least some conversations about it with them; presumed so when he can not deny same.  You and I as tax payers paid for his education in these languages at the Dept. of Defense schools, which he now uses as an assett against our nations best interests.  It is not in question that Iran is the Mother of Hezballah and other terrorist groups, an Al Queda ally, as well as a medusa of other groups yet to surface.  We both acknowlege he is an intelligent individual, and therefore had to know when these converstatons took place who would benefit, or who would suffer a loss.  Maybe I'm alone, but I regard those acts as undermining U.S. Intelligence for whom he spoke and signed an oath.  Remember, He believes these countermeasures work, and apparantly passed those along to the known enemies, or at least anti-U.S., personnel on foreign soil.  I don't know if his position enjoys Diplomatic Immunity or not, but if so it would be from the Dutch, and not from the USA.  Agan I say, such things are for Judges, Attorneys, and a Jury to figure out.  I only ask the academic question about all of these variables.  Don't even get me started on the open acceptance on this site of the alliance with self admitted child molesters in undermining a Judge's orders for their compliance and monitoring while on probation.  That advice strikes me as being in comtempt of court.  Maybe my mind is just that of an everyday family man, common sense kind of guy, and not a part of this new world order where anything goes without consequences at the end of the day.  Just call me old fashioned. 

  It sounds like you have a very interesting hobby.  I think that you would find that unlike what you have written, polygraph examiners do have to answer within their own system in QC, and to where they could justify a fellow examiner would reach the same decision if they were challenged on a call / charts.   

   In regard to the twin towers, place that punch on the chin of radical Islam where it belongs.  There are 26 armed world conflicts going on at this moment in the world, 24 of which involve radical Islam not being able to live peaceably with their neighbors.  The core of the funding for much of this is Iran and Syria as derived from petro dollars, and so maybe now you understand if little old me can understand all of that, I expect same from the moderator who looks into their eyes and talks with them as a job. 

  In regard to the paragraph about "assasination", I did not wish to attack you in any way, and only wanted it clear that the first noun used associated with violence did not come from me, and that it was from a poster who assumed the lowest common denominator, rather than a broader spectrum of possibilities.  Nobody I know advocates the "assasination" of an unarmed person / non-combatent. Rather, only due process of law in a civilized setting.  Punishments are handed out by those in power to do so.   


 
 

   


 

 

         TwoBlock,

   We all need a job and that includes George.  He has found in the world marketplace a way in which to prosper from his skillset. Fine. This job serves the function of the U.N. and not necessarily the United States; and even if it were so, has very little to show for it's existence given how far apart the two sides are in their world view.  That he performs this job, and I'm sure very well, does not upset me.  That he has exposed himself to these individuals as an Intelligence Officer does. That he further fails to deny sharing with them in verbal conversations about defeating his country's intelligence tools also does.  That the articles he points to were created from he as a source in whole or in part does.  That these articles are traceable back to the geographic area country (Iraq via Iran, & Afghanistan) where U.S. military personnel fight and die does.  Can the moderator point to even one article in the Arab or Persian world that existed prior to the creation of this site, or his job in Holland interacting with Anti-U.S. Iranian personnel ?  Is there even ONE other individual who both speaks, reads, and writes the language of our enemies who placed such things in their hands; and sheepishly wrote about it in what myself and others perceived as bragging (reasonable people may differ on that a bit).  As I have further pointed out, people who openly admit to being convicted child molesters on probation or parole and who are under court order to be monitored come here for advice in regard to trying to defeat the system.  GM provides information he believes will assist them to pass so they can do what ??? Molest more kids, or empower their minds to do same ????   Come on, if you had to pick two catagories of human beings today to NOT associate with for the rest of your life---  I would say that Middle Eastern Radical Islamists and Child Molesters are at or near the top of that list--- and yet they are catered to here.  What is the response to this objection ?  Only that they are Incidental Viewers !!!!  Rediculous !!!  If I had a child or grandchild who were molested and that person confessed to the police or anyone else that they came to this sight and were given advice that caused them to continue molesting---- it would be more than them alone I would come after.   
   
  As previously stated TwoBlock, YOU as John Q. Public can / could post such material on the internet; but GM is in fact special.  He has an inherant obligation as a person with a PhD to be of a higher caliber, and as a former intelligence officer to see all of the contingencies as they might unfold; and in this case the risks outweighed the perceived benefits when countermeasure advice is given, and to whom.   

Historically, the job of an Intelligence Officer is that you enter into a special world wherein what you work on in the singular, or what is in the best interest of the greater intelligence community in the plural, is protected.  There are even men today who served in WW 2 who can not write about their actions and work in that war, and they take those experiences with them to the grave, as was their promise both by verbal declaration and signature, as well as in spirit.  As technology improves and our deeper understanding of the human body now at the genome level, it can be said that GM will probably outlive the polygraph itself.  Until that PsychoPhysiological device is created though, he HAS a special obligation to have protected the means, methods, sources, and apparatus of the U.S. Intelligence community; and certainly NOT have conversations about same with those who are the clear and historical enemies of the United States.  There is a legal, ethical, and moral difference between GM and John Q. Public.  He knows that, perhaps you did not. His adding a brick or two to their wall of defenses did not serve us well as Americans.  Even if you say that those bricks are insignificant-------Attempts count under the law. 

  In closing let me say that in a lecture I attended a deep seeded point was made that radical Islam has the will, but not the wepons, to us the harm they desire.  We, have the weapons, but it appears not the will, to do what is needed to deal with them.  Time is the only variable now which will determine who either gets the weapons or the will.  My presumption is that WW3 as you have envisioned it will occur if we fail to gain the will to destroy these folks, and then further allow moderate Islam to enter the 21st century. 

         FOOD FOR THOUGHT, AND YOU DON'T FEED YOUR ENEMY ! 

Best Regards

   

[[color=#999999]color=#cccccc]Can the moderator point to even one article in the Arab or Persian world that existed prior to the creation of this site, or his job in Holland interacting with Anti-U.S. Iranian personnel ? [/color][/color]
See the section Devices Used in Interrogation from the Encyclopedia of Jihad. Although the electronic version is dated 2002, the original print edition pre-dates AntiPolygraph.org.

[color=#666666]THIS ANSWER WOULD APPEAR TO BE A DODGE AND WHOLLY INSUFFICIANT AS IT DOES NOT SHOW ANY PRIOR KNOWLEDGE OF COUNTER MEASURE ATTEMPTS OTHER THAN TO SAY IN A NAIVE WAY THAT IF YOU (The Terrorist) DON'T BELIEVE IT THE MACHINE IT WILL NOT WORK ON YOU.  WHERE IS THE CM INFORMATON THAT PRE-DATES YOUR SITE TO SHOW YOU DID NOT INSPIRE OR ASSIST THESE PEOPLE AS THE SOLE HUMAN BEING WITH BOTH THE PASSION FOR THIS AND TECHNICAL CAPABILITY TO ASSIST THEM. SO PLEASE, A CM SOURCE MADE AVAILABLE TO THE ENEMIES OF THIS COUNTRY THAT PRECEDES YOUR SITE OR MEETING THEM.[/color]

[highlight][color=#999999]Is there even ONE other individual who both speaks, reads, and writes the language of our enemies who placed such things in their hands; and sheepishly wrote about it in what myself and others perceived as bragging (reasonable people may differ on that a bit). [/color][/highlight]

My knowledge of Middle Eastern languages has no bearing on the fact that U.S. adversaries can read English, as the article "The Myth of the Lie Detector" in Al-Fath magazine clearly demonstrates.

[color=#000000][color=#666666]THAT THEY CAN READ ENGLISH IS NOT IN QUESTION.  THAT YOU WORK WITH THESE PEOPLE, AND CAN NOT DENY SUCH CONVERSATIONS ABOUT CM's WITH THEM POINTS TO YOUR BEING A SOURCE, IF NOT THE SOURCE THAT INSPIRED THESE ARTICLES.  DURING THESE APPARANT CONVERSATIONS IN COVERING THAT TOPIC YOU AIDED AND ABETTED THE ENEMIES OF THE UNITED STATES AS SOMEONE WHO HAD IN ALL PRACTICALITY SWORE NOT TO DO SO.  THEY HAVE BEEN OUR ENEMY FOR ALL OF YOUR ADULT LIFE, AND YOU DID NOT TELL THEM THIS IN SOME INNOCENT WAY, BUT RATHER YOUR ZEALOUS PASSION ABOUT IT WON OUT OVER YOUR COMMON SENSE. [/color][/color]

[color=#cccccc]As I have further pointed out, people who openly admit to being convicted child molesters on probation or parole and who are under court order to be monitored come here for advice in regard to trying to defeat the system.  GM provides information he believes will assist them to pass so they can do what ??? Molest more kids, or empower their minds to do same ????   Come on, if you had to pick two catagories of human beings today to NOT associate with for the rest of your life---  I would say that Middle Eastern Radical Islamists and Child Molesters are at or near the top of that list--- and yet they are catered to here.  What is the response to this objection ?  Only that they are Incidental Viewers !!!!  Rediculous !!!  If I had a child or grandchild who were molested and that person confessed to the police or anyone else that they came to this sight and were given advice that caused them to continue molesting---- it would be more than them alone I would come after. [/color]

AntiPolygraph.org makes information about polygraph procedure and countermeasures available to the public to provide the truthful with the means of protecting themselves against a false positive outcome, especially in the context of pre-employment polygraph screening. 

[color=#666666]ISN'T THIS ALSO SAYING YOU ELECTED TO EQUALLY PROTECT THE LIAR'S WHO HAVE COMMITTED CRIMINAL ACTS ?  AREN'T YOU ALSO FROM AN EMPASSIONED VIEW BETRAYING THE PUBLIC WHOM SWORN OFFICERS HAVE A DUTY TO PROTECT, BUT BECAUSE OF YOU MAY HAVE A FALSE NEGATIVE OUTCOME, WHERE THE PERPETRATOR THEN GOES ON TO DO SAME SAID CRIME AGAIN  ?  SHOULD YOU BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE WHEN IT CAN BE TRACED TO YOU ?  SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, IF IT WERE MY GRANDCHILD MOLESTED I WOULD NOT BE AT ALL IMPRESSED BY YOUR ACADEMIC EXCERCISE, BUT RATHER OUT FOR JUSTICE.  AN EYE FOR AN EYE. [/color]

There is no way of making this information available to those who legitimately need it without making it available to everyone. The ethical considerations involved have been addressed a length in my Response to Paul M. Menges Regarding the Ethical Considerations of Providing Polygraph Countermeasures to the Public."

[color=#666666]YOU APPEAR SELF APPOINTED IN DETERMINING "Those who legitimately need it" vs. THOSE WHO GET HURT BY IT.  YOU MAY YET HAVE TO ANSWER FOR THAT.  THANK YOU FOR BEING ON RECORD THOUGH [/color]

[color=#cccccc]As previously stated TwoBlock, YOU as John Q. Public can / could post such material on the internet; but GM is in fact special.  He has an inherant obligation as a person with a PhD to be of a higher caliber, and as a former intelligence officer to see all of the contingencies as they might unfold; and in this case the risks outweighed the perceived benefits when countermeasure advice is given, and to whom.   [/color]

I think that after being presented with the facts, most objective observers can see that it is the height of folly to continue placing reliance on a pseudoscientific fraud such as polygraph "testing." I think they will also agree that it is immoral for the State to pretend to assess the honesty and integrity of individuals on the basis of such a fraudulent procedure.

[color=#666666]I THINK ?      I THINK ?   PERHAPS YOU DIDN'T THINK WITH A LEVEL HEAD, BUT RATHER AN OBSESSED AND REVENGEFUL ONE !!!  SUCH THINGS BEFORE BEING PLACED I THE HANDS OF ENEMIES OF THE UNITED STATES BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC SHOULD NOT BE DECIDED BY SUCH MEN WHO SWORE AN OATH TO PROTECT THE ASSETTS OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY THEY SERVED.  IT WAS SIMPLY NOT YOUR DECISION TO MAKE !!!!   I BELIEVE THAT YOU NOW NEED SOMETHING NEW TO THINK ABOUT AND OBSESS OVER.  MAYBE YOU NEED TO "THINK" ABOUT HOW YOU HAVE INSPIRED THE ENEMIES OF THIS NATION AND CHILD MOLESTING CRIMINALS.  HOW MANY CHILDREN ARE YOU WILLING TO RUIN TO HELP THESE MOLESTERS SO THAT YOU CAN CONTINUE WITH     I THINK  ?   IF I WERE ADDRESSIGN YOUR JURY I WOULD ASK THEM     WHAT IN THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING ?  LADIES AND GENTLEMAN OF THE JURY--- IT IS NOW TIME FOR YOU TO      THINK !!!  [/color]

[color=#cccccc]Historically, the job of an Intelligence Officer is that you enter into a special world wherein what you work on in the singular, or what is in the best interest of the greater intelligence community in the plural, is protected.  There are even men today who served in WW 2 who can not write about their actions and work in that war, and they take those experiences with them to the grave, as was their promise both by verbal declaration and signature, as well as in spirit.  As technology improves and our deeper understanding of the human body now at the genome level, it can be said that GM will probably outlive the polygraph itself.  Until that PsychoPhysiological device is created though, he HAS a special obligation to have protected the means, methods, sources, and apparatus of the U.S. Intelligence community; and certainly NOT have conversations about same with those who are the clear and historical enemies of the United States.  There is a legal, ethical, and moral difference between GM and John Q. Public.  He knows that, perhaps you did not. His adding a brick or two to their wall of defenses did not serve us well as Americans.  Even if you say that those bricks are insignificant-------Attempts count under the law. [/color]

Knowing what I know about polygraphy, and knowing the harm that misplaced reliance on this pseudoscience has and continues to cause to public safety, national security, and individuals, I think it would be immoral and a shirking of civic duty not to speak out. As Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. put it, there comes a time when silence is betrayal.

[color=#666666]DON'T CONFUSE THE DOMESTIC CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT FOR EQUALITY DOMESTICALLY IN OUR NATION WITH YOUR COLLABORATING WITH THOSE WHO INTEND US HARM WHETHER THEY BE FOREIGNers OR DOMESTIC Child Molesters.  WHEN SILENCE IS BETRAYAL ???????????  HOW ABOUT WHEN JUST PLAIN OLD BETRAYAL IS BETRAYAL.  YOU COULD HAVE RUN FOR CONGRESS OR OTHER ELECTED OFFICE !!!  YOU COULD HAVE GONE TO LAW SCHOOL !!!  YOU COULD HAVE DONE A THOUSAND DIFFERENT THINGS OTHER THAN ATTEMPTING THE COMPROMISING A TOOL OF U.S. INTELLIGENCE FOR THE BENEFIT OF A ROGUE CRIMINAL NATION LIKE IRAN, OR OTHERS WHOM WE FIGHT THAT ARE THEIR PROXIES.  YOU SIMPLY DON'T GET TO      THINK     FOR ALL OF US, AND CERTAINLY NOT YOUR BRETHERAN INTELLIGENCE OFFICERS.  YOUR CIVIC DUTY ????  I DON'T THINK YOU CAN DO YOUR CIVIC DUTY FROM FOREIGN SOIL  !!!!!  [/color]

[color=#cccccc]In closing let me say that in a lecture I attended a deep seeded point was made that radical Islam has the will, but not the wepons, to us the harm they desire.  We, have the weapons, but it appears not the will, to do what is needed to deal with them.  Time is the only variable now which will determine who either gets the weapons or the will.  My presumption is that WW3 as you have envisioned it will occur if we fail to gain the will to destroy these folks, and then further allow moderate Islam to enter the 21st century. [/color]
Who are these folks that you think need destroying?  

[color=#666666]PICTURE THIS HEAD OF MEDUSA WITH YOUR IRANIAN FRIENDS AS THE BRAIN AND BLOOD SOURCE.  THE TENNECLES WOULD BE  AL QUEDA, HEZBALLAH, THE PLO, AL-AQSA MATRYS BRIGADE, ANSAR AL-ISLAM, Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad/Al-Qaeda in Iraq, Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Fatah al-Islam,  Jemaah Islamiyah, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi - Pakistan, Lashkar-e-Toiba - Pakistan, Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group - Morocco and Spain , Palestinian Islamic Jihad in Israel, Taliban - Afghanistan,  Turkish Hezbollah, Takfir wal-Hijra - Egypt/Sudan/Algeria.  & Others.  

DON'T YOU GET IT ??  THE QUINTESENTIAL QUESTION OF OUR TIME / OUR LIVES IS:  WHERE DO YOU STAND ON THE WAR ON TERROR  ?   I see you standing in the company and embrace of our enemies, and compromising the work of your brother and sister intelligence officers in what has been your hell bent mission of revenge no matter who you have to hurt to try and get that done.  

You have ventured beyond academic excercise, and there have been many benchmarks from which you could have changed, but are engrossed on a dangerous path.  You may not be in the end salvageable.  [/color]




 

The Tom Leykis show is having a follow-up today, Friday, March 28, 2008, regarding what happened a couple weeks ago about John Grogan.  

Check the website for air time in your area or you can listen online.  They want PIs or anyone with useful info to email (Gary on the site) or to call in.  

You may want to pass it on.  The site is:

http://www.blowmeuptom.com/



 

 

Quote:


Roger,

I'm very much aware that on occasion, some courts have allowed polygraph results into evidence. See, for example, Ohio v. Sharma. But such instances are not common; they are the exception, not the rule.