Normal Topic can polygraphs be performed on people with mental illness? (Read 21914 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box youj
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 1
Joined: Mar 10th, 2008
can polygraphs be performed on people with mental illness?
Mar 10th, 2008 at 12:25am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
if so, all types of mental illness? Are there any journal articles/studies as to what kinds of psychiatric illnesses polygraphs can not be used in, for instance stress disorders. Can it be used in stress disorders?
« Last Edit: Mar 10th, 2008 at 3:28pm by youj »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box sackett
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 347
Joined: Jan 31st, 2008
Re: can polygraphs be performed on people with mental illness?
Reply #1 - Mar 10th, 2008 at 3:25am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
youj,

generally speaking, yes.  BUT, every cases is just that, case by case.  An evaluation should be done by the examiner before the examination to make sure the examinee is in fact  fit.  I've tested many who had various disorders that were not dysfunctional, others, I've had to say, "I'm sorry, but you're not fit."

Sackett
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6225
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: can polygraphs be performed on people with mental illness?
Reply #2 - Mar 10th, 2008 at 7:07am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Although polygraph operators may be willing to polygraph persons with mental illnesses in some circumstances, it should be borne in mind that polygraph "testing" has not been proven through peer-reviewed research to reliably differentiate between truth-telling and deception at better-than-chance levels under field conditions in people without a mental (or other) illness.

The "test" has no grounding in the scientific method. It's inherently biased against the truthful, and yet the deceptive can pass using simple countermeasures that polygraphers have no demonstrated ability to detect. In short, polygraph results are not to be relied upon, whether or not the examinee suffers from any illness. For a thorough debunking of polygraphy, see The Lie Behind the Lie Detector (1 mb PDF).
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box T.M. Cullen
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 858
Location: Hawaii
Joined: Dec 5th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: can polygraphs be performed on people with mental illness?
Reply #3 - Mar 10th, 2008 at 8:15am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Polygraphers are equal opportunity scam artists.   

But if the person is "psychotic" and can't tell reality from fantasy, and lies, will that lie count against them and cause them to "fail"?

Then again, the truth-telling ability of the test is itself a fantasy, so it doesn't matter.

TC
  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box sackett
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 347
Joined: Jan 31st, 2008
Re: can polygraphs be performed on people with mental illness?
Reply #4 - Mar 10th, 2008 at 3:46pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
youj,

Ms or Mr Cullen is correct; that psychotic, schizophrenics, etc should not be tested.  They have a lost contact with reality (like some of the "anti" posters on this site) and that could have an impact on the examinations accuracy.  I personally will not test them unless their attending physician releases the examinee to do so.

Sackett
_________________________________________________________

George,

"...it should be borne in mind that polygraph "testing" has not been proven through peer-reviewed research to reliably differentiate between truth-telling and deception at better-than-chance levels under field conditions in people without a mental (or other) illness.

The "test" has no grounding in the scientific method. It's inherently biased against the truthful, and yet the deceptive can pass using simple countermeasures that polygraphers have no demonstrated ability to detect. In short, polygraph results are not to be relied upon, whether or not the examinee suffers from any illness. For a thorough debunking of polygraphy, see The Lie Behind the Lie Detector." 

may i suggest you post your standard "mantra" on your main page.  This will release you from the unnecessary obligation of repeatedly posting it everytime someone new comes here.  Just an idea to save you some time.

Sackett
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box LALE
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 17
Joined: Jan 28th, 2008
Re: can polygraphs be performed on people with mental illness?
Reply #5 - Mar 10th, 2008 at 4:14pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Youj,

Polygraph examiners will test anything with an arm and a pulse.

Their mantra is:
Outdo, out test, out DI, outBS the rest. 
Sackett The Kid is gonna get you. 
The fastest poly gun in the West.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box sackett
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 347
Joined: Jan 31st, 2008
Re: can polygraphs be performed on people with mental illness?
Reply #6 - Mar 10th, 2008 at 7:57pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
lale,

You have certainly taken immaturity to a new level.   

Do you actually think before you type?  Do you realize that "normal" people read this site looking for honest information?   

No, I didn't think so...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box notguilty1
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 300
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2008
Re: can polygraphs be performed on people with mental illness?
Reply #7 - Mar 11th, 2008 at 12:57am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
sackett wrote on Mar 10th, 2008 at 3:25am:
youj,

[b]generally[/b] speaking, yes.  BUT, every cases is just that, case by case.  An evaluation should be done by the examiner before the examination to make sure the examinee is in fact  fit.  I've tested many who had various disorders that were not dysfunctional, others, I've had to say, "I'm sorry, but you're not fit."

Sackett


WOW finally I agree with Sackett. But... Since the test is unscientific and bascially a scam. What difference does it make who gets tested.
Since thier aim is a confession and not a test result per se. Than the only problem with testing a person with a "mental illness" is that any confession would be useless.
Thanks again Sackett for continuing helping in debunking the whole Poly scam.  Tongue
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box sackett
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 347
Joined: Jan 31st, 2008
Re: can polygraphs be performed on people with mental illness?
Reply #8 - Mar 11th, 2008 at 3:02am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
"notguilty1",

No, we don't agree on much of anything.  Because, you have no idea what you're talking about.  Reading a few "talking points" on this site, regurgitating partial information and whining about your past does not make you qualified to argue or discuss polygraph with any level of accuracy or intelligence.   

It does; however, open the door for a massive display of ignorance. Thanks!  You are making my job extremely easy.... Cry


Sackett
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box notguilty1
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 300
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2008
Re: can polygraphs be performed on people with mental illness?
Reply #9 - Mar 11th, 2008 at 3:58am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
sackett wrote on Mar 11th, 2008 at 3:02am:
"notguilty1",

No, we don't agree on much of anything.  Because, you have no idea what you're talking about.  Reading a few "talking points" on this site, regurgitating partial information and whining about your past does not make you qualified to argue or discuss polygraph with any level of accuracy or intelligence.  

It does; however, open the door for a massive display of ignorance. Thanks!  You are making my job extremely easy.... Cry


Sackett


Wrong AGAIN Sackett, You see I know first hand that Poly's are a scam. 
You on the other hand, don't really know who you examined has told the truth or lied unless they confess. DO YOU??
I can't see how my personal experience ( and that of others) with Poligraphs can be an open door for a "massive display of ignorance" 
other than it is more smoke screens for your "chosen profession" so that you can get more people to fall for the scam.
Where inocent people are failed and the liers just employ CM's. Shocked
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box T.M. Cullen
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 858
Location: Hawaii
Joined: Dec 5th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: can polygraphs be performed on people with mental illness?
Reply #10 - Mar 11th, 2008 at 3:58am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
Reading a few "talking points" on this site, regurgitating partial information and whining about your past does not make you qualified to argue or discuss polygraph with any level of accuracy or intelligence.   


Point noted.

How about the conclusions reached by the NAS report that for every would be spy the polygraph is able to "fail", hundreds of innocent people (pity wallowers as you call them) are FALSELY LABELED DECEPTIVE?

Was the NAS regurgitating partial information and unqualified to make such a conclusion?

Stop being deceptive.   

Quote:
Do you realize that "normal" people read this site looking for honest information?


I thought you said people only come here to "wallow in self pity"?

  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box sackett
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 347
Joined: Jan 31st, 2008
Re: can polygraphs be performed on people with mental illness?
Reply #11 - Mar 11th, 2008 at 7:45pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
notguilty1 wrote on Mar 11th, 2008 at 3:58am:
sackett wrote on Mar 11th, 2008 at 3:02am:
"notguilty1",

No, we don't agree on much of anything.  Because, you have no idea what you're talking about.  Reading a few "talking points" on this site, regurgitating partial information and whining about your past does not make you qualified to argue or discuss polygraph with any level of accuracy or intelligence.  

It does; however, open the door for a massive display of ignorance. Thanks!  You are making my job extremely easy.... Cry


Sackett


Wrong AGAIN Sackett, You see I know first hand that Poly's are a scam. 
You on the other hand, don't really know who you examined has told the truth or lied unless they confess. DO YOU??
I can't see how my personal experience ( and that of others) with Poligraphs can be an open door for a "massive display of ignorance" 
other than it is more smoke screens for your "chosen profession" so that you can get more people to fall for the scam.
Where inocent people are failed and the liers just employ CM's. Shocked


"notguilty1",

you take one polygraph test (maybe 2); and now you're an expert!?

you read a few bullet points on this web site; now you're an expert!?

you hear "polygraph is a scam", and now you're an expert!?

you hear others with their tale of woe, being falsely accused of lying, ah ha!  They too are false positives!  So, now you're an expert!?

you read a book on how to beat the polygraph examiner; and again, now you're an expert!?

OK!  You're an expert.  How come you haven't passed any polygraph examinations; Mister Expert!???? Roll Eyes

Sackett
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6225
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: can polygraphs be performed on people with mental illness?
Reply #12 - Mar 11th, 2008 at 7:52pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
sackett wrote on Mar 11th, 2008 at 7:45pm:
notguilty1 wrote on Mar 11th, 2008 at 3:58am:
sackett wrote on Mar 11th, 2008 at 3:02am:
"notguilty1",

No, we don't agree on much of anything.  Because, you have no idea what you're talking about.  Reading a few "talking points" on this site, regurgitating partial information and whining about your past does not make you qualified to argue or discuss polygraph with any level of accuracy or intelligence.   

It does; however, open the door for a massive display of ignorance. Thanks!  You are making my job extremely easy.... Cry


Sackett


Wrong AGAIN Sackett, You see I know first hand that Poly's are a scam. 
You on the other hand, don't really know who you examined has told the truth or lied unless they confess. DO YOU??
I can't see how my personal experience ( and that of others) with Poligraphs can be an open door for a "massive display of ignorance" 
other than it is more smoke screens for your "chosen profession" so that you can get more people to fall for the scam.
Where inocent people are failed and the liers just employ CM's. Shocked


"notguilty1",

you take one polygraph test (maybe 2); and now you're an expert!?

you read a few bullet points on this web site; now you're an expert!?

you hear "polygraph is a scam", and now you're an expert!?

you hear others with their tale of woe, being falsely accused of lying, ah ha!  They too are false positives!  So, now you're an expert!?

you read a book on how to beat the polygraph examiner; and again, now you're an expert!?

OK!  You're an expert.  How come you haven't passed any polygraph examinations; Mister Expert!???? Roll Eyes

Sackett


Sackett,

To the extent that notguilty1 understands that polygraph testing depends not on science, but trickery (with the polygraph operator lying to and otherwise deceiving the person being "tested"), and to the extent that you fail to grasp this fundamental truth, he is more knowledgeable about polygraphy than you are.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box notguilty1
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 300
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2008
Re: can polygraphs be performed on people with mental illness?
Reply #13 - Mar 11th, 2008 at 11:15pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
George W. Maschke wrote on Mar 11th, 2008 at 7:52pm:
sackett wrote on Mar 11th, 2008 at 7:45pm:
notguilty1 wrote on Mar 11th, 2008 at 3:58am:
sackett wrote on Mar 11th, 2008 at 3:02am:
"notguilty1",

No, we don't agree on much of anything.  Because, you have no idea what you're talking about.  Reading a few "talking points" on this site, regurgitating partial information and whining about your past does not make you qualified to argue or discuss polygraph with any level of accuracy or intelligence.  

It does; however, open the door for a massive display of ignorance. Thanks!  You are making my job extremely easy.... Cry


Sackett


Wrong AGAIN Sackett, You see I know first hand that Poly's are a scam. 
You on the other hand, don't really know who you examined has told the truth or lied unless they confess. DO YOU??
I can't see how my personal experience ( and that of others) with Poligraphs can be an open door for a "massive display of ignorance" 
other than it is more smoke screens for your "chosen profession" so that you can get more people to fall for the scam.
Where inocent people are failed and the liers just employ CM's. Shocked


"notguilty1",

you take one polygraph test (maybe 2); and now you're an expert!?

you read a few bullet points on this web site; now you're an expert!?

you hear "polygraph is a scam", and now you're an expert!?

you hear others with their tale of woe, being falsely accused of lying, ah ha!  They too are false positives!  So, now you're an expert!?

you read a book on how to beat the polygraph examiner; and again, now you're an expert!?

OK!  You're an expert.  How come you haven't passed any polygraph examinations; Mister Expert!???? Roll Eyes

Sackett


Sackett,

To the extent that notguilty1 understands that polygraph testing depends not on science, but trickery (with the polygraph operator lying to and otherwise deceiving the person being "tested"), and to the extent that you fail to grasp this fundamental truth, he is more knowledgeable about polygraphy than you are.


George,
Thanks for that I couldn't have said it better myself. Wink

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box sackett
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 347
Joined: Jan 31st, 2008
Reply
Reply #14 - Mar 12th, 2008 at 2:54am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
AND THE BEAT (MATRA) GOES ON!!!!!! Roll Eyes
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
can polygraphs be performed on people with mental illness?

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X