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Innocent until proven guilty? (Read 5657 times)

captpedo New User Offline Posts: 3 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Joined: Feb 1^st, 2008 Gender:	Innocent until proven guilty? Feb 1^st, 2008 at 5:29pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I have recently been given a polygraph test which for some reason I failed. I work for an armored car company and there is a sum of money missing. I have worked there for a long time and have never stolen any money and have not stolen the money that is now missing, yet I failed the polygraph. This has caused me to start losing faith in our criminal law system. I figured that I had nothing to lose as I am telling the truth but the sheriff's investigator appears to highly suspect me. Apparently I have to prove my innocence but how?


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Twoblock God Member Offline Posts: 732 Location: AR. Joined: Oct 15^th, 2002 Gender:	Re: Innocent until proven guilty? Reply #1 - Feb 1^st, 2008 at 7:03pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	captpedo There has to be more evidence than a failed polygraph to convict you or make you lose your job. The sheriff can have all the suspisions he wants, but he has to have hard evidence to prove your guilt. Unless the evidence is out there, I wouldn't worry about it. The MO is to try to get you to cop a plea to something with a promise to "help you". If you are not guilty tell them to prove their case. Keep in mind that investigators can legally lie to you and do all the time trying to get a plea.


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captpedo New User Offline Posts: 3 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Joined: Feb 1^st, 2008 Gender:	Re: Innocent until proven guilty? Reply #2 - Feb 1^st, 2008 at 7:24pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	The main thing that concerns me it that they will give me a bad name. I am in my late 40's and have returned to school to get my bach. degree in security management and fear that with this over my head it will cause problems in the future. I know that I did not do it but I will have to keep proving it to prospective employers.


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Twoblock God Member Offline Posts: 732 Location: AR. Joined: Oct 15^th, 2002 Gender:	Re: Innocent until proven guilty? Reply #3 - Feb 1^st, 2008 at 8:43pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	captpedo I am not up much on state law because each state is different in their statutes. However, I would bet that your state has a statute of limitations whereby you can be charged with theft. After giving them ample time to investigate, I would file a writ in Circuit Court demanding to be charged or dismissed. If you are never charged, I don't see how the suspicion can legally be held over your head. If your reputation is damaged over a suspicion by LE, I would say you had grounds for a lawsuit.


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notguilty1 Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 300 Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2008	Re: Innocent until proven guilty? Reply #4 - Feb 3^rd, 2008 at 7:53pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Hi Cap, I too have been accused of a crime I did not do and subsequently failed a police poly even though I was totaly truthfull in ALL my answers. I have the same concerns as you do. I feel as you may that the questions specific to the crime had an effect on me because I knew that I was the ONLY suspect and they all thought I did it. I also feel that this will somehow come back to me someday. I do wonder as TWO responded to your post if since this is an "unproven" accusation if we have grounds for a liable suit against our accusers? This has also made me to strongly question law enforcement since I had never had this kind of interation with them before. It really seemed that they had already made their decision of my guilt before the poly even begun and proceeded to get as much proof as they could to that end. Good luck to you.


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sekzyme39 New User Offline Posts: 5 Joined: Feb 7^th, 2008 Gender:	Re: Innocent until proven guilty? Reply #5 - Feb 8^th, 2008 at 12:35am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I know how you feel. I was held in jail for 8 months, because my public defender had told the ADA that I would take a plea. They want me to do 7 years for something I'm not guilty of. I hired my own atty., and was out on bond in a week. My faith in the legal system is fried.

	Go with God,&&Jenn
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T.M. Cullen God Member Offline Posts: 858 Location: Hawaii Joined: Dec 5^th, 2007 Gender:	Re: Innocent until proven guilty? Reply #6 - Feb 12^th, 2008 at 7:35pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	You have my sympathy. My false positive has ruined my chance for getting any government job requiring a security clearance. That's not a problem as I have found fruitful employment elsewhere. The thing that bothers me most is the lingering effect it's had on my reputation. I served faithfully for 20 years as a military linguist. It's a small community and word spreads. Luckily, most people know the test is bogus. It doesn't make me feel any better to know that there have been several recent China spy cases (chinese was my language specialty) in which those busted passed their polygraphs! One of the cases occurred in the very facility I worked at for many years! oh well, it's only the national security!

	"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)." Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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nomegusto Senior User Offline Posts: 75 Joined: Nov 26^th, 2007	Re: Innocent until proven guilty? Reply #7 - Feb 12^th, 2008 at 9:10pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Mr. Ames I totally understand your grief concerning polygraphs. I wish you luck in your retirement, thanks for serving, even though we differ on our beliefs. 8 more years for me... LOL... Not Guilty I've posted concerning your guilt/innocence on a different thread. Your not helping yourself on my suspicions my friend. I'm not gonna lie on that one. However, what are you going to sue for? Because you've made yourself a suspect? You were at a scene of a crime? Hello?!?!?! Seks Good job on getting another counsel. If your innocent. Congrats, and I wish you luck. Capt To be honest, your post makes me wonder. Be specific on what happened, and a statement you made. It makes it easier for us to understand what totally happen. Don't lose faith, if you haven't been charged. The agency investigating is going nuts on trying to figure what exactly did happen. Honestly folks, I'm not trying to bash people. If you feel that I'm an evil pro polygrapher, I'm sorry. But sympathy in criminal cases urk me more then anything else...

	semper paratus
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nopolycop Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 383 Joined: Oct 20^th, 2007	Re: Innocent until proven guilty? Reply #8 - Feb 12^th, 2008 at 10:04pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	T.M. Cullen wrote on Feb 12^th, 2008 at 7:35pm: It doesn't make me feel any better to know that there have been several recent China spy cases (chinese was my language specialty) in which those busted passed their polygraphs! One of the cases occurred in the very facility I worked at for many years!! What's really insulting is knowing that truthful, honest applicants fail on a regular basis, and the spies and other ilk are passed with flying colors.

	"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams." (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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Twoblock God Member Offline Posts: 732 Location: AR. Joined: Oct 15^th, 2002 Gender:	Re: Innocent until proven guilty? Reply #9 - Feb 12^th, 2008 at 10:22pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	nomegusto You don't have any sympathy for the many poor souls who were wrongly convicted, spent up to 22 years, some more, in prison and now have been cleared by DNA? I believe that I read where the maximum they can get for their wrongful incarceration is $250.000.00. Not much for the lost time of their lives, families torn apart, etc. On top of that, LE and prosecutors never admit that they made a mistake even though the guilty one was found already in prison for another crime. I haven't read where even one of them showed remorse for the wrong conviction. Are you one of these?


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nomegusto Senior User Offline Posts: 75 Joined: Nov 26^th, 2007	Re: Innocent until proven guilty? Reply #10 - Feb 12^th, 2008 at 11:14pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	C'mon Two: Where did I post I wasn't sympathetic to someone whom was wrongly convicted? I won't be sympathetic to someone whom shows traits of deception on there statements, or posts. I also won't sympathize with someone convicted of sexually abusing anyone. Accused, and Convicted are two entirely different avenues. If other LEO's choose not to be sympathetic to there case work(maybe lack of), it's not my issue. I wish no one to go to jail if there innocent, but we don't live in a perfect society either. Which is why, I'm not a poly supporter for HR reasoning. However criminal cases, it's a awesome tool. Which, I've stated in the past...

	semper paratus
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Twoblock God Member Offline Posts: 732 Location: AR. Joined: Oct 15^th, 2002 Gender:	Re: Innocent until proven guilty? Reply #11 - Feb 13^th, 2008 at 1:36am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	nomegusto Sorry Bud. I just took your statement "But sympathy in criminal cases urk me more "then" (than) anything else" as meaning all criminal cases including wrongful convictions. I don't mean mentioning the use of a wrong word to be derogatory either. I see so many people, even in official documents, using incorrect grammer and syntax. The misuse of words i.e. then/than, there/their, there/the're, your/you're, etc., is rampant. In my case, I used to be an excellant speller. However, at 77, I find myself being a horrible speller and I try to keep abreast of correct spelling by going to the dictionary instead of using spell check. I can't remember if a word uses - ss, cc, mm, pp, etc. I only mention this because it may be a help in writing official documents like your police reports.


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nomegusto Senior User Offline Posts: 75 Joined: Nov 26^th, 2007	Re: Innocent until proven guilty? Reply #12 - Feb 13^th, 2008 at 2:14am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	twoblock Anytime. when I'm doing reports, I'll usually have two dictionary's with me. One in English, and one in Spanish. Especially when it comes to the translating part. Have a great night. Excuse my grammar. I know, I tend to be harsh on others. But like anything else, I'm far from perfect.

	semper paratus
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