Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP! (Read 23863 times)
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took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP!
Jan 13th, 2008 at 5:00am
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Hello this is my first post i took a poly for a police agency i am looking for opinions to ease my mind. i do not know if i past yet or not. i went in took the pre interview then we started i did not really use counter measures as i dont think i was lyeing although when i left i wasnt sure because she made me feel like i might have and not even known it. i took the test and the first one she said i was breething to slow and i needed to breeth normally so i said ok and explained to her that i was just trying to ease my nerves. anyway she ran for tests all together not one time did she say that i reacted to any question when we finished there was no post interview or anything she said ok we are done and i said ok thank you for your time and i left. can anyone help and give me there opinion on what happened did i pass or fail?
  
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Re: took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP!
Reply #1 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 5:47am
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Based on the absence of any post-test interrogation or accusation of deception, it seems likely that you passed, or that at worst, the outcome might have been deemed inconclusive.
  

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Re: took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP!
Reply #2 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 8:15am
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if it is deemed inconclusive what does that mean for job prospect and thank you for your opinion sir
  
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Re: took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP!
Reply #3 - Jan 13th, 2008 at 4:29pm
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You might have passed but you also might be called to take it again.  When I took my poly I was told once to "stop thinking about your breathing" once.  I used counter measures and passed.  Polygraphs are jokes....a sick joke.
  

Counter-measures were easy.
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Re: took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP!
Reply #4 - Jan 14th, 2008 at 5:05am
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dontknow wrote on Jan 13th, 2008 at 8:15am:
if it is deemed inconclusive what does that mean for job prospect and thank you for your opinion sir


Typically, law enforcement agencies will ask examinees with inconclusive polygraph results to return for a follow-up session, and the applicant will not proceed further in the hiring process unless and until he/she passes the polygraph.
  

George W. Maschke
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Re: took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP!
Reply #5 - Jan 14th, 2008 at 4:22pm
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George W. Maschke wrote on Jan 14th, 2008 at 5:05am:
dontknow wrote on Jan 13th, 2008 at 8:15am:
if it is deemed inconclusive what does that mean for job prospect and thank you for your opinion sir


Typically, law enforcement agencies will ask examinees with inconclusive polygraph results to return for a follow-up session, and the applicant will not proceed further in the hiring process unless and until he/she passes the polygraph.


George:

Why do you use the term "pass?"  How can one "pass" an opinion? 
  

"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams."  (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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Re: took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP!
Reply #6 - Jan 15th, 2008 at 1:36am
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Back from vacation.
Based on your statement. Hmmm, well I dont know what to think. Normally, your polygrapher will tell you whether you passed or you failed. 
How do you not know if you lied or told the truth? Shocked
You didn't really use a countermeasure? Roll Eyes
I'm gonna take a stab, and say you might NOT have passed. Reading your post, with your excellent grammar and spelling.  Cool But, I'm not a polygrapher, and well I didn't examine ya. Good Luck...
  

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Re: took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP!
Reply #7 - Jan 15th, 2008 at 2:59am
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Gee, I thought polygraph tests were "scientific".  What difference does it make how you breath?  Or whether you're "Thinking about your breathing".

Maybe you should think about "a piece of liver" like in the movie Portnoy's complaint!
  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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Re: took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP!
Reply #8 - Jan 15th, 2008 at 4:04am
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Try moving your leg around when someone is attempting a CT Scan. Childish non-compliance, easily detected, and easily remedied. Tongue
  

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Re: took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP!
Reply #9 - Jan 15th, 2008 at 7:57am
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EJohnson wrote on Jan 15th, 2008 at 4:04am:
Try moving your leg around when someone is attempting a CT Scan. Childish non-compliance, easily detected, and easily remedied. Tongue


Try thinking about something else during a CT scan.  See if the doctor claims you are being purposefully noncompliant.

There is no way of ever knowing what a test subject is thinking, so any test that requires them to think of a certain thing, or not to think of certain things, cannot possibly be a valid scientific test.

Failing everyone suspected of inappropriate thinking is the only recourse, and that is simply untenable.
  

Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous êtes intellectuellement faillite.
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Re: took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP!
Reply #10 - Jan 15th, 2008 at 11:27am
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However, I'm still wondering about the validity of the first post. It seems to far fetched for me. Why do you need help after the fact?
  

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Re: took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP!
Reply #11 - Jan 15th, 2008 at 1:29pm
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Sergeant1107 wrote on Jan 15th, 2008 at 7:57am:
EJohnson wrote on Jan 15th, 2008 at 4:04am:
Try moving your leg around when someone is attempting a CT Scan. Childish non-compliance, easily detected, and easily remedied. Tongue


Try thinking about something else during a CT scan.  See if the doctor claims you are being purposefully noncompliant.

There is no way of ever knowing what a test subject is thinking, so any test that requires them to think of a certain thing, or not to think of certain things, cannot possibly be a valid scientific test.

Failing everyone suspected of inappropriate thinking is the only recourse, and that is simply untenable.


Perhaps a better analogy would be for a person subjected to a P300 brainwave scan. When a person is asked to recall soemthing in order to view psychological and physiological responses, then keeping your brain on task is quite relevant. Again you split hairs. You canot seem  to get around the fact that there is virtually no other sort of test like polygraph. It just trips you up, having too many caveats. When I attempt to fully understand the MMPI variations, I too have more questions than absolute comprehension. In the end, it is the dreaded Bayesian statistics that are the proofs. Understanding the precise mechanisms of polygraph is like understanding how broadcast television works. Sure, I know that multiple moving pictures are scattered into microscopic pieces and sent through the air, but that knowledge doesn't remedy my "huh's?" Polygraph and the MMPI all just "work" with far better than chance accuracy.
  

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Re: took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP!
Reply #12 - Jan 15th, 2008 at 2:18pm
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When one takes a hearing test, one is asked to press a button when a sound is first heard or hold the button down, releasing it when the sound goes away.  This is done at varying frequencies to determine hearing loss.  Such a test requires attention and concentration on the part of the examinee to be as accurate as possible.  If one wanted to defeat the efficacy of the test then one might "think of something else" rather than paying full attention.  I suppose that the hearing test should be scrapped as unscientific as it requires active mental participation and cooperation on the part of the person being tested.

Vision tests require the examinee to report whether one degree of magnification is clearer than another until the optimal lens magnification is discovered. If the examinee fails to concentrate or decides to "think about something else" rather than follow the instructions given, he might walk of the examination wearing “coke bottle” lenses and tripping over his own feet.  Guess we should scrap that unscientific examination as well.
Wink Grin
  
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Re: took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP!
Reply #13 - Jan 15th, 2008 at 3:50pm
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Both of these analogies require an active response though by the testee, and neither purport to read a person's thoughts.  The polygraph purports to be able to tell what a person is thinking, and doesn't require an active response.  Apples and oranges.
  

"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams."  (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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Re: took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP!
Reply #14 - Jan 15th, 2008 at 3:59pm
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Ahem! My P300 analogy was very appropriate. Google "P300 Brain waves." Also, read the famous 1851 novel "Moby Dick" by Herman Melville.



  

All men are mortal. Socrates was mortal. Therefore, &&all men are Socrates.-----Woody Allen  &&
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took poly for pre employment for police agency PLEASE HELP!

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