I'm trying to think of a way to write my reply to sound nuetral. I like nuetrality. Both sides have a valid point as far as I am concerned. I do post on a anti poly site. But does it make me anti poly, not particulary. I am in agreement, that for Sex Offender probation programs, and for criminal investigations it is a great tool. I'll admit even for a pre screening test it could be a good tool, as long as a applicant was foolish enough to show up unprepared. By this I mean not knowing what to expect. Do countermeasures work? I don't know. I never used it. Did I ever show a false positive. You betcha. Was I able to clear my name in the post interview. Uh huh. Guess what, I wasn't labled a liar, however I did manage to stress myself out a little more then I had too. I had no one to blame but me. I came to this site, not to learn how to beat it, but to learn where did I go wrong. Too be honest, there is more positive information for pre screeners here, on how to pass(without cheating), or atleast try and calm yourself down before a poly. The key besides telling the truth, is to walk in with confidence. An investigator, or polygrapher is going to see that. Every step in LE is a test (remember the recruit). It's sort of true. LE is a stressful job. You go to work with the mindset, your gonna survive, and go home alive. I learned to deal with the Poly, and the VSA the same way. I'm going to tell the truth, and your not gonna stress me out to fail, or give you any reason to believe a false positive. Grant it, there are bad apples. Bueno, esta bien. Eso es la vida. But you should have the oppurtunity to A. explain yourself, B retake the exam with a different operator, C it wasn't met to be, and try a different agency. Being honest with a polygrapher will HELP your situation. But don't say you went to an Anti site only. Do the research from Pro sites (you should do that yourself). If you have expierence, give details. It makes there job easier, and you can walk in with a smile. On top of everything I have stated. I would prefer to be labeled a liar, the a cheat. But, thankfully I haven't been labeled either. Because well, I know personally I havent done either, and I can sleep with a guilt free conscious... My two cents...


If you think you've done stuff to disqualify yourself, or you read disqualifiers where you match the description look somewhere else. Why waste people's time, and money, and that is including your own...

He He He....
Thanks!!!

nomegusto wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 6:40pm:

That’s an interesting point of view.

I believed, prior to failing my first three polygraphs, that all I had to do was tell the truth and I would pass.  I told the truth and I failed three times in a row.  My truthfulness and my confidence had nothing to do with it.  The test itself is flawed.

If the polygraph was worthwhile then truthful applicants would pass.  It’s just that simple.  An unknown percentage of truthful applicants do not pass.  Supporters of the polygraph believe that percentage is small, and opponents of the polygraph believe it is large, but no one pretends it doesn’t exist.

If, in your opinion, the test being used can only be passed (or is more likely to be passed) by a truthful person if that person studies the testing procedure and the available literature, how valid can that test possibly be?

I'm thinking hard about the previous posts. Actually I'm thinking way too hard for this time of night, just so you know. But I got finished  watching an awesome soccer game for Saprissa. So, here's another 2 cents from little ole me. 
About the validity of the tests? Hmmm, good point. I've stated earlier, that I'm not a fan of pre screening polygraphs. However that being said, if it's part of the hiring process you have two options. Take the test, or look for an agency that doesn't utilize this test nor the VSA. 
However, if you take the civil service test, Treasury Enforcement Test, ASVAB, or any other test. Who normally passes, or receives a better score? The one who prepares, and studies, or the one who doesn't? I didn't say your gonna pass if you look up information. I said your gonna have an easier time being prepared. I've also stated the difference for me with preparing for the poly, and not preparing for the poly.  I passed both times, because I was able to explain my reactions. But the first one was a lot more stressful then the others. 
   I have NO idea where your going with the gauntlet post?!?!?!?!?! But it is a good point. Again, if your guilty of a crime, I personally think your a DUMB ASS for taking the poly in the first place. I don't really need a poly to get someone to confess of a crime. Niether does a polygrapher, however forget the science, anytype of interoggation is a art. The polygraph in that way is part of the canvass, the confession would be the final product. If your innocent, and being investigated for a crime, and you know/understand your rights, and were ask to take a poly, inwhich you foolishly agreed to. It's your own damned fault for willfully giving up your 5th ammendment rights. Shame on you, and your lawyer for agreeing. 
If your trying to obtain employment, again read what I wrote earlier. If a polygrapher is just reading your charts, he's not a good investigator. They record for a reason. I bet he/she is checking for NVI's. That's what I would do, but then again, I'm NOT a polygrapher. I'm just concerned that people aren't being responsible enough when it comes to this. 
Whether or not a person chooses to use CM's, it's thier own decision. I won't. I personally don't know if there is a class or not to detect CM's. I don't want to find out the hard way either. I'm interested in finding out how to detect them, but here is not the area to dispute. I enjoy the civil posts pertaining to a topic, not adhock attacks by either pro/anti . The majority of posters are mostly leo's. So were mostly on the same team one way or another. Stay safe everyone...

nomegusto wrote on Nov 29^th, 2007 at 5:15am:


WTF?

Nom, I find your posts full of common sense, but this one got me.  Maybe it was late, but it seems to me you said that if you are guilty of a crime and take a poly, you are a fool, and if you are innocent and take a polly, you are a fool.

I can think of a couple of instances where I would disagree with both of these.  If you are Gary Ridgway and want to take the suspicion off you for having killed 40 or so women, take a poly, pass it, and the cops look elsewhere.  it worked for him.

If you have been accused of a crime, but didn't do it, you might take a poly to clear your name, (but this is a VERY RISKY GAMBLE).  If one chooses to do this, do it privately, not with the LE polygrapher.

Well Nopoly I'm no Gary Ridgeway, nor am I anyperson thats good at deceiving others. I know  personally, if I became under investigation for a felony crime. I'm NOT going to allow myself to take a poly. Again, as I stated on earlier posts a polygraph is part of a painting. 
For instance, when someone applies for law enforcement agency, and is subject to a polygraph does that person get hired afterward? Normally I'd say no. You have to go through the psychological, and then you have to (wait wait, are you sick of waiting yet? LOL) go through the Back Ground INVESTIGATION!!!! 
Grant it, I've read posts where we slam polygraph as a whole because a few bad apples were able to slip through the cracks. It happens, thats life. Innocent people are labled liars, and I apologize for that as well. But nothing is perfect. I don't like getting polygraphed. But I'm not at a level in my profession to tell the bosses to not polygraph for pre screening either. 
   Nopoly, knowing the information you know now. If per chance you were investigated for committing a crime, which you are innocent of. A detective, or criminal investigator asked to polygraph you, would you take the risk? If so, would you cheat, and risk being caught? I think if an investigator caught you using CM's, you'd be screwed. Especially if there were no other leads,  fruits of the crime, or instrumentality of the crime. 
   I wouldn't even need to use the machine as evidence. The fact that you were trying to delibratly alter a interrogation could be enough to make life miserable. 
   If that was me, I'm gonna lawyer up. Keep the mouth shut, and well most LEO's know what to do afterwards. 

EJ thanks...

So yah, what I said was exactly that. For good reason. Since the majority of individuals unfortunatly DON'T know there rights. 

Nom:

Knowing what I know now, I cannot answer the question you pose to me, because every circumstance is different.  A lot would hinge on the emotional baggage that would come with the type of crime accused of.  Are you going to respond emotionally when asked about that type of crime?  Have you ever committed a similar crime under different circumstances, which you might react to?  These are just a couple of variables that would preclude me from answering your question.

But, I do know that I would be very distrustful of taking a poly where it was done at request of a detective, by an LEO examiner.  After all, the results are not subjective, but instead, the opinion of the examiner.  IN truth, one cannot subjectively pass or fail, but instead one is given an an objective opinion by someone who has attended a trade school.

There's other circumstances concerning the polygraph. A. it's recorded. As far as I am concerned. If your a thorough polygrapher, your not determining the test just by the chart. It's going to be the totality of the situation. Your going to look for NVI's etc etc. I can tell without a polygraph if your sweating prefously during questioning by looking at a subjects shirt, or all of a sudden he's thirsty etc etc, and the room temp is 59 degrees. I honestly don't think there making a final decision just on a chart. As far as I am concerned, your prescreen interview will be a big make or break in any polygraph. Hell, if your doing so well on a prescreen, and a good written statement, will I even do the interrogation. Sometimes no. Polygraph as far as I am concerned is the same way. People are nervous. It happens. Some people can alter there breathing without realizing it, because of the conditioning in a stressful enviorement. It's life. But, it's not just the squiggly lines on a part, or computer graph. Thats interview/questioning 101... 



Polygraphers, please let me know if I am right or wrong? I don't want to overstep my boundry on this, since I'm not a polygrapher. I'm trying to write more on common sense then anything else...