AntiPolygraph.org Message Board - American Polygraph Association's statement regarding the validity of polygraphs. What does it mean?

(UTC)

Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

You can enhance your privacy when browsing and posting to this forum by using the free and open source Tor Browser and posting as a guest (using a fake e-mail address such as nobody@nowhere.com) or registering with a free, anonymous ProtonMail e-mail account. Registered users can exchange private messages with other registered users and receive notifications.

In addition, check out our live chat server.

AntiPolygraph.org Message Board › Polygraph and CVSA Forums › Polygraph Procedure › American Polygraph Association's statement regarding the validity of polygraphs. What does it mean?

(Moderator: Administrator)

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

Pages: 1

Add Poll

Send Topic

American Polygraph Association's statement regarding the validity of polygraphs. What does it mean? (Read 4070 times)

nopolycop Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 383 Joined: Oct 20^th, 2007	American Polygraph Association's statement regarding the validity of polygraphs. What does it mean? Oct 31^st, 2007 at 5:10pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	The following is copied and pasted from the APA website: "The American Polygraph Association has a compendium of research studies available on the validity and reliability of polygraph testing. The 80 research projects listed, published since 1980, involved 6,380 polygraph examinations or sets of charts from examinations. Researchers conducted 12 studies of the validity of field examinations, following 2, 174 field examinations, providing an average accuracy of 98%. Researchers conducted 11 studies involving the reliability of independent analyses of 1,609 sets of charts from field examinations confirmed by independent evidence, providing an average accuracy of 92%. Researchers conducted 41 studies involving the accuracy of 1,787 laboratory simulations of polygraph examinations, producing an average accuracy of 80%. Researchers conducted 16 studies involving the reliability of independent analyses of 810 sets of charts from laboratory simulations producing an average accuracy of 81%. Tables list the authors and years of the research projects, which are identified fully in the References Cited. Surveys and novel methods of testing are also mentioned. " My question centers around the obvious discrepancy between the validity of field examinations and laboratory examinations. Why so much discrepancy?
	« Last Edit: Oct 31^st, 2007 at 5:26pm by nopolycop »
	"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams." (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
	IP Logged

1904 Ex Member	Re: American Polygraph Association's statement regarding the validity of polygraphs. What does it mean? Reply #1 - Oct 31^st, 2007 at 8:32pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Nopoly, The APA is trying to convince the public that field testing research produces higher accuracy than lab studies, whereas the converse is true. But lab studies are bunkum.


	IP Logged

Barry_C Very Senior User Offline Posts: 114 Joined: Oct 17^th, 2007	Re: American Polygraph Association's statement regarding the validity of polygraphs. What does it mean? Reply #2 - Oct 31^st, 2007 at 8:39pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I hope you're seasoning those feet. Quote: The APA is trying to convince the public that field testing research produces higher accuracy than lab studies, whereas the converse is true. But lab studies are bunkum. If the opposite is true, then lab studies are more accurate than field studies; yet, lab studies are "bunkum." That makes perfect sense. Real answer: There are all kinds of studies in there - apples and oranges and pears. You have to look inside the book to start crunching the numbers. Some of those field studies are suspect, in my opinion. For example, one study resulted in 100% accuracy (the technique's author / creator conducted the study). (Before you go too crazy though, the NAS report included that study, which means it somehow "made the cut.")


	IP Logged

1904 Ex Member	Re: American Polygraph Association's statement regarding the validity of polygraphs. What does it mean? Reply #3 - Oct 31^st, 2007 at 8:44pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Barry_C wrote on Oct 31^st, 2007 at 8:39pm: If the opposite is true, then lab studies are more accurate than field studies; yet, lab studies are "bunkum." That makes perfect sense. I agree. We're starting to sing from the same page. I could actually get to like you at his rate.


	IP Logged

nopolycop Especially Senior User Offline Posts: 383 Joined: Oct 20^th, 2007	Re: American Polygraph Association's statement regarding the validity of polygraphs. What does it mean? Reply #4 - Oct 31^st, 2007 at 11:15pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Barry_C wrote on Oct 31^st, 2007 at 8:39pm: I Real answer: There are all kinds of studies in there - apples and oranges and pears. You have to look inside the book to start crunching the numbers. Some of those field studies are suspect, in my opinion. For example, one study resulted in 100% accuracy (the technique's author / creator conducted the study). (Before you go too crazy though, the NAS report included that study, which means it somehow "made the cut.") Okay, I'll narrow it down. How is the accuracy of a field examination confirmed, to come up with the 98% accuracy quoted in the study?

	"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams." (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
	IP Logged

Sergeant1107 God Member Offline Posts: 730 Location: Connecticut, USA Joined: May 21^st, 2005 Gender:	Re: American Polygraph Association's statement regarding the validity of polygraphs. What does it mean? Reply #5 - Nov 1^st, 2007 at 12:09am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	It is also interesting to note that in the APA's response to the National Academy of Sciences research study, they dismissively write that the NAS study only used 57 of the more than 1000 studies available. The implication is that the NAS did not avail itself of the bulk of the available research. In their statement touting the accuracy of the polygraph, the APA cites 80 of the more than 1000 studies available... The clear message, as absurd as it sounds, is that 57/1000 is a shoddy job of research, but 80/1000 is acceptable.
	« Last Edit: Nov 1^st, 2007 at 2:47am by Sergeant1107 »
	Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous êtes intellectuellement faillite.
	IP Logged

1904 Ex Member	Re: American Polygraph Association's statement regarding the validity of polygraphs. What does it mean? Reply #6 - Nov 1^st, 2007 at 11:53am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Sergeant1107 wrote on Nov 1^st, 2007 at 12:09am: It is also interesting to note that in the APA's response to the National Academy of Sciences research study, they dismissively write that the NAS study only used 57 of the more than 1000 studies available. The implication is that the NAS did not avail itself of the bulk of the available research. In their statement touting the accuracy of the polygraph, the APA cites 80 of the more than 1000 studies available... The clear message, as absurd as it sounds, is that 57/1000 is a shoddy job of research, but 80/1000 is acceptable. And that Sarge, is another big nail in the coffin of polygraph. Nice One.


	IP Logged

Barry_C Very Senior User Offline Posts: 114 Joined: Oct 17^th, 2007	Re: American Polygraph Association's statement regarding the validity of polygraphs. What does it mean? Reply #7 - Nov 1^st, 2007 at 8:05pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I think that is a reference to Norm Ansley's work done in about 1990. The 80 research "projects" may refer to meta-analyses of several studies each, which could mean hundreds of studies. It's been a while since I looked at that publication. It's just numbers. You've got to go to the studies for details or you're cheating yourself. They probably need to update the numbers and/ or make it more clear. They also include different types of tests. Some are more accurate than others as has been pointed out here before.


	IP Logged

Pages: 1

Add Poll

Send Topic

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

American Polygraph Association's statement regarding the validity of polygraphs. What does it mean?

Name:
E-mail:
Your Verification Code is:	Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Verification Code:
Preview

Message Icon:

Subject:

Message:
You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.

Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:

Text size: pt

More Smilies

View All Smilies

Collapse/Expand additional features

Attachments More Attachments

Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB

Attachment 1:

Attachment 2:

Attachment 3:

Attachment 4:

Attachment 5:

Attachment 6:

Attachment 7:

Attachment 8:

Attachment 9:

Attachment 10:

Disable UBBC and Smilies:

Check this if you wish to disable parsing of ubbc tags and smilies.